Thursday, October 7, 2010

Nerpa will go to India soon

Despite previous reports about further delay in delivery the Akula-II class SSN to India, the Russian military-industrial source confirmed Nerpa is ready to go to India. After the last India-Russia intergovernmental commission session the RosoboronExport Director General Anatoly Isaykin said to Russian news agency ARMS-TASS, that Nerpa will be transferred to India this year. 'There is no delay in the tests' - he said. As was reported before, the Indian crew will come to Vladivostok, conduct testing in open sea and then the act of transfer must be signed. The submarine will go to India guided by its Indian crew.

Between other news, leaked after the Russia-India military-tech cooperation meeting,  RosoboronExport chief hinted the further spending for the joint PAK FA\FGFA program will be calculated with regarding to the fact that the Russian side has already spent a lot of money for PAK FA project, i.e. may not be equal. 'In fact we already have the plane for our sevice (PAK FA), now the advanced export variant development is needed' - he said. He expects signing the final agreement till year end.

In addition, the new deal for Su-30MKI aircrafts supply to India is prepared and even can be signed this year, the RosoboronExport source said.


  1. This doesn't really confirm words of "RosoboronExport chief" Igor
    Thisi is not "PAK FA\FGFA program" any more but just FGFA program till it gets other name.


    The jointly-produced fifth generation fighter will not be a copy of the existing Sukhoi T-50 prototype ordered for the Russian Air Force, but will be a separate creation, a high-profile source in the Russian delegation in New Delhi said.

    PLEASE Igor do you have ANY comment on this new change of the Russo-Indian agreement?
    What is Russia going to do with parallel 5th generation program and another plane (FGFA)as final product?
    Isn't this just unnecessary spending and doubling expenditure for Russia?!
    Does that mean that Russia will have two completely different 5th generation planes PAKFA & FGFA ?!

  2. I think this quote spells it out:

    'In fact we already have the plane for our service (PAK FA), now the advanced export variant development is needed'

    In other words they have developed their aircraft and it is now down to India to work with Russia to develop an Indian version that meets their needs.
    We know for a start that the Indians want a two seater model only.
    We also know that they are prepared to look to Israel and France and other countries for components etc.
    In other words the Russians have designed the Su-30MK and now the Indians are making it their Su-30MKI.
    The Russians have developed their aircraft, so any work on the Indian version will likely need to be paid for by India.

    Of course there is scope for more development too, they could make a carrier based model, a dedicated strike model (though Russia already has the Su-34 so that might not be important to them) or jamming or SEAD type models or even recon models too.
    A naval model will need more strength, a recon model might need better all round stealth and of course sensors etc etc.

  3. BTW Bulava launch successful. :)

  4. Hi Garry!

    Thanks for clearing it up for me!
    It was more my English & quick reading that brought me to wrong conclusion!

    Specially because of this words

    "The jointly-produced fifth generation fighter will not be a copy of the existing Sukhoi T-50
    prototype ordered for the Russian Air Force, but will be a SEPARATE creation"

    How does that "SEPARATE creation" amounts only to announced 30% of participation than?!
    NOT much of "SEPARATE creation" there just playing with the words if it is only 30%!
    Is that just polite way to avoid to say the truth that FGFA despite what they say will be the quite similar to the PAKFA!
    Which is old news.

    Do you Garry or Igor have any comments about possibility that India wants to make engines for FGFA based on GE F-414 or some other technology?

    Why would India create "carrier based model" when Russia has much bigger experience in that?

    Yeah I'm happy for Bulava also! Very good news
    for Russian Navy and some people who risked their career by supporting Bulava program
    Finally Borei subs can hope to get their nukes

    @ Igor

    I've read that there are some delays in transfer of some "technologies" to India concerning T-90S production mentioned in Serdyukov's visit to India
    Is that maybe linked with latest upgrades that
    Russia has made with T-90M ?

    Sorry I didn't save the link

  5. Garry,

    I have found some interesting article on the details that you were talking about....
    And it looks like that India maybe wants to change design of PAK FA more than slightly...

    "India has been working on Next Generation Fighter Aircraft (NGFA) or Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) designs. It was formerly known as medium combat Aircraft (MCA) project. As mentioned in interviews of some DRDO officials, NFGA will require a partner. We speculate that, the Indian version of FGFA will have design inputs from NGFA studies and hence the Indian version of FGFA will be significantly different from the Russian FGFA design. India will build upon the significant achievements of the Light Combat Aircraft “Tejas” project for the FGFA design"

  6. I think he means seperate creation in the same way that the Su-30MKI is different from the Su-30MK and indeed Su-35 which the Russian AF is actually finally putting in to service.

    I have no idea about the relationship between the US and India so I can't really comment on the GE 414, except to say don't expect to be able to use your FGFA against Pakistan if the engine is based on the 414.
    You will need to do as the US demands if you want to start using their stuff.

    Regarding carrier based variants I think it would make sense for Russia to make a naval variant and for India to decide whether it wants F-35s or its own naval fighter joint developed with Russia.
    Remember the first models of the Kuznetsov had Mig-23s on it but by the time it got into service the Flanker and Fulcrum were ready to go aboard. For the new Russian and Indian carriers right now Fulcrums and in the case of Russia Flankers are potential aircraft but a carrier version of the T-50 might end up being the standard naval fighter for Russia... just because it would be better. I would assume India would come to the same conclusions as long as its carriers were large enough.

    Regarding the choice of changes to the T-50 or starting from an Indian design and applying changes to that I think both would make sense depending on the wishes of India.

    The T-50 was originally supposed to be slightly bigger than a Flanker but it turns out it is actually slightly smaller than a Flanker.

    I think the NGFA label suits it best because AMCA could be applied to what ever wins the MRCA program.

    It says the new aircraft will have input from existing Indian programs and we can assume the Sukhoi input will be from the T-50 and Su-35.

    If that is what the Indian military wants they are the ones that will be paying the bills.

    From the comment above I think the Russian participation will be to create a 5th gen fighter with foreign components that they can export without compromising the T-50 design.
    I look forward to seeing the results.
    It is interesting that most estimates of the T-50s level of stealth suggest it wasn't a top priority... will be interesting if the Indian military put more or less emphasis on stealth in the basic design.

    Of course I have read that the T-50 is not the final design and that when the 3D thust vectoring engines are ready that it will lose its horizontal tail surfaces to reduce weight and complication and cost.

  7. Thanks Garry

    So you think that only FGFA will be exported, not PAKFA?(except 50 PAKFA agreed to be sold to India)
    That detail on "3D thrust" & "lose its horizontal tail" is very interesting

    BTW GE F-414 is related with this :
    "India picks GE's F414 for Tejas MkII fighter"

  8. In the immediate term I think it will be like the S-400 in that they will want to equip the Russian Airforce as a priority first before opening the aircraft to export.
    And lets face it with all the different Su-27 variants appearing in China I rather doubt they will be in a hurry to sell to them.
    Very simply the only Russia customer with enough cash for a T-50 is India anyway.

    BTW good luck with the contract on the F414 engines... because we upgraded our A4 Skyhawks to about 90% the performance of an F-16A the US has decided that our A4Ks are too sophisticated for us to sell so we have to keep them in storage.
    I think we should just take them out to deep water and drop them in the sea.
    The money being offered for them is a fraction of their worth yet we can't even get that for them and are paying a couple of million a year in storage to keep them airworthy.