Thursday, October 15, 2009

Moscow afterparty

According to the Russian new agencies and DM reports, the 9th session of India-Russia Intergovernmental Commission on military-technical cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) was rather successful. Some of questions and problems were resolved – was declared by the sides. The protocol for prospective joint military programs' realization was signed by two DMs. It includes:

1)      Complete the bureaucratic formality of PAKFA/FGFA project till year end.
2)      Speed up resolving of Gorshkov's payment issue 'in mutual interest'.
3)      Brahmos air version was confirmed, the acceleration of manufacturing too.
4)      New joint ventures in helicopters' development – the plans for this was confirmed. According to Russian DM was told about a prospective medium lift helicopter.
5)      Joint venture for future IFV development will be esteblished.
6)      New modernization programs: Su-30MKI, MiG-27, T-90S, T-72M1, BMP-2.
7)      The project of Program of military-technical cooperation on 2011-2020 and the project of after-selling support & service agreement were discussed. They will be signed in Dec.2009 during Indian PM visit to Moscow.

The Russian DM said, that the agreement between Russia and India helps both for improving bilateral military-technical cooperation and global strategic stability.   

India becomes the Russia's number one partner in military cooperation. The export of Russian weapon and military equipment will grow in 4 years (2009-2012) up to $16.205 bil against $4.704 in 2005-2008 and $3.985 bil in 2001-1004.  According to the contracts the export is distributed by year as follow: 2009 - $2.924 bil, 2010 – $3.511 bil, 2011 - $3.198 bil, 2012 - $6,571 bil.

For comparison the Russian mil-tech export to China are relatively few: 2007 – $1.356, 2008 - $1.357.

The DMs of the countries are the heads of this commission. The commission includes two work-groups and the Supervision committee (translated from Russian):

1)      Mil-tech cooperation (MTC Federal Service deputy director A.V.Fomin, mil purchasing director S.K.Sharma)
2)      Shipbuilding, aircraft building and mil vehicles building (Departament of military development director I.E.Karavayev, deputy DM R.K.Singh)
3)      Supervision committee (was created in 2008,  MTC Federal Service director M.A.Dmitriev, deputy DM P.Kumar.


  1. Hi Igor, what's point 5 about and Mig 27 was upg, will there be more or another upgrade?
    But what interests me the most, are there any new infos about Pak Fa/FGFA capabilities and which helicopter jv could that be?
    I really hope for the Ka 92! Imo the best choice to replace numbers of Mi 8/Mi 17 helicopters of Russian and Indian air force.
    Btw, it would be great if you have more infos, or links about the Ka 92 too!


  2. @Sancho

    point 5 is about next gen Infantry Combat Vehicle (ICV) or Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV). Mig 27 will be upgraded. Upgrade package is unknown. The new heavy lift heli could be the Mi-46

  3. great stuff,
    great news india going back to its old friend,.USA unveiling brand new f-16 for pakistan and barack obama's peace price,,and few more changes in policy has changed the way india was going,,, i won't be surprised if we buy mig-35,, the fifth generation weapons and technology developed for pak-fa can be used to upgrade mig-35 further,further IGORR friend as you predicted if india goes for rd-33mk for LCA it will be icing on cake,,the news on new INFANTRY FIGHTING VEHICLE is great cause the usa is agrresively pushing stryker and its derivatives to indian army,,and indian army has to replace thousands of bmp-2 in its inventory.
    REGARDING THE HELICOPTER i think it will be great to see india join mi-38 and mi-46,not sure though,IGORR BROTHER what are the probabilities OF INDIA ORDERING KA-226T FOR ITS LIGHTWEIGHT OBSEVATION HELICOPTER CONTEST.booming time. old friendship is thousand times better than new ones

  4. to October 15, 2009 4:27 PM:

    I'm also waiting for clarification about the offered helo prototypes' technical characteristics. But I'm almost sure they yet finalized this. The program has only been started. It can be a conventional design as well.

  5. to saptarshi dasgupta:
    As about Ka-226T, this helo is offered in the light helicopter tender, has more powerful engines for better altitude, better steadiness against the wind due to its contra-rotary helix. Thus, it has good chances, but will see how the things are going in reality.

  6. Hi Igor,
    Nice blog! Keep it up.
    Any news on the timeframe in which these proposals will be finalized? Or have they been finalized already? Also, is anything major (apart from signing the agreement) coming up during Manmohan Singh's visit to Moscow in December?

  7. to Bharat:
    For sure they will speak about new atomic stations and space programs/aircrafts propositions with mr. Manmohan S. Hopefully they will finally sign a principal of payment for Vikra. It's known only, that the final sum will not be decided, but the payment will be done according to the principals, defined by the sides.

  8. Hi Igorr,
    Do you have any information on the latest & futuristics Indo-Russian joint T-420 MBT tank. If you have do post some info please.

  9. to anon October 16, 2009 1:20 PM:

    Only few tech details are known about this joint project. As I can understand from a different sources info crossover, the sides still seek for common POV on the FMBT. The designation T-420 is only a rumor. I can only say (with great caution) that the Indians are not 100% satisfied from the current T-95 UVZ project, as a basis for FMBT. So the Russians now try to involve some technological and engineering results which were spun-off from Omsk's 'Black Eagle' MBT project, like the extra-corporal auto-loader. Of course, the Indians want to implement their own working-outs like the hydro-pneumatic suspension, designed previously for Arjun MBT.

  10. @ Anonymous

    Thx for your reply!

    As I said the Mig 27 upgrade was already competed:

    So what is this new upgrade claim about?

    I know that HAL wants to make a new medium class helicopter, so Mil Mi X1 and moreover the Ka 92 would be candidates. The Mi 46 is a heavy heavy weight helicopter to replace Mi 26 if I'm not wrong. Doubtful that India joints that development, because there is already a competition for the replacement going on.

    @ saptarshi dasgupta

    The Mi 38 is already developed so no need to join there. Also these are just actual gen helicopters, whereas Mil Mi X1 and Ka 92 are next gen helicopters.

  11. @ Sancho

    That was just an avionics upgrade. Now we are talking about real upgrades like engine, radar, fuselage, weapons etc. Again, the real requirements are unknown but surely it has got to be a life enhancement upgrade.

  12. Hi IGOR

    There was a signed contract of india buying 80 mi-17 helicopters(what variants of mi-17 are they mi-171 or mi-17v and what are their features)

    Recently during MARKS 2009 there was reports that india is considering buying more mi-17 what do you know about that and in which category does the mi-17 which india is buying fall is it low-lift,medium-lift.

    which helicopter of russia is competing for the heavy-lift tender of the indian air force is it MI-26T and if it is then what are the new features they have in it.

    Here you told that there is a joint venture in helicopters are they of both the medium-lift and the heavy-lift category.HAL was searching a partner for its medium-lift helicopter is russian bid selected for that.

    regarding MI-38 and MI-46 they fall in two different lift weight.

    Is MI-46 considered as the base model for the joint venture of the medium lift helicopter.

    you also told that mig 27 and T-72M1 will also be upgraded AFAIK some of the mig 27 already got DARE upgrade and T-72M1 got upgrade to CIA standard(can you tell if the engine is uprated to 1000hp)

    if we can upgrade mig 27 and T-72M1 here then why go to russians for mig 27 and T-72M1 upgrade unless there is other upgrade which we cannot do here can you give a view on the difference of the upgrades of mig 27 and T-72M1 done by indian and that will be done by russia

    thank you ..

  13. to haker:

    1) 80 Mi-17V5
    2) Mi-17/171 - are of medium lift without doubts
    3) Mi-26 is a contender for the heavy-lift for India for sure. No other of this class is currently in Russia
    4) According to the news the medium-lift tender was annulled and India bought 80 Mi-17V5 instead. Now India and Russia will design the new gen medium lift together.

    5) Mi-46 - is a project only, all its things including the weight can be changed by the sides during the talks.

    6) About mig-27 upgrade only few I know coz it's done by Indian side itself. As can be understood this upgrade didn't satisfied IAF, so they want involve the OEM for may be engine or other upgrade.

    7) About T-72 Ajeya as 200 were upgraded by Poland (Drava) and as 500 - with Israel (Elbit TISAS sght). Both upgrades could not satisfied IA because were done without OEM and could not include engine and gun upgrade. Now they are going to put there the 1000 h Russian engine (the same as T-90S has) and the new gun similar to T-90S. Also the armor will be upgraded up to (almost) t-90S standard. The whole upgrade program will be done in India of course. Some parts for this will be produced in India (engines, ERA) and some - imported from Russia/Belorussia/Franc (the sight).

  14. To Igor Djadan,
    I am big supporter of Russian products and Russian cooperation with India. Recently, I have read a good article written by retired air force officer mr. v k Thakur. please read article and please comment on this article
    Thank you.

  15. to anon October 16, 2009 5:52 PM:

    I have read the Cdr Thakur article with great interest. What I can said is, if the most India's tops and scientists say Brahmos program is success, it is success, whatever is said in some blogs. Other wise I don't know how to define word 'success'.
    2) $2.5-mln each missile - is a VERY cheap price relative to whatever the Americans or French offer. For example, one SM-3 antiballistic missile cost $10 mln, but you can hit a missile by it, not more. With Brahmos you can sank a whole ship, or any high valuable and defended object! Of course, the traditional Russian export niche on the Indian market was a super cheap crude weapons, but the time over and somebody must to be used for the new reality: the Indo-Russian missile with close to western price (although cheaper) and overwhelming capability.

  16. not much hope for india with such indian elites who are paid up memebrs of usa spy agencies and who want to wrecjk indorussian and chinse freindship on instigation of usa-their masters.

    "read the commnets of mr. bhadrakar in asia times of today about machinations of corrupt indian elite in pay ogf americans .

  17. to avatar singhj :

    Of course there are a lot of American lovers (if not 'lickers') between NRIs for obvious post-colonial reason. However, I think you dramatize a bit regards India's drift towards US. The current US' political redesign in Asia towards India and China occured partially due to lack of success of Bush administration. They did not succeed to use India as a counter-balance for China (and in future Russia too), thus they are trying now to build their G2 'Chimerica' project. Ms Clinton is the chief designer of this new politics, not Mr. Manmohan S. Let's look what will happen when they restart selling mil technology to Beijing, as they do in 70-80th. Anyway, I hope SCO and BRIC obligations will hold China from turning towards USA too far.

  18. I agree with you completely. US does not have a do or die relationship with its friends (read allies). It is always based on circumustances and its personal interests. The recent inclination towards India is purely based on commercial interests rather than geo political. It has never snubbed Pakistan on Kashmir or its alleged diversion of funds. The only way to keep of US and China is to collaborate with Russia on various levels and to develop technology.