Sunday, September 12, 2010

Indo-Russian air forces exercises

It seems to me that despite all voices of ill wishers the prospects of cooperation between Russia and India are sound as usually and the joint military exercises are planned again. This time it will be the air forces exercises. 'The common exercises will certainly be hold during next years' - said Ru AF chief Alexander Zelin after his visit in India, RIAN new agency reported 10.09.11.

The proposal has already been submitted for consideration to the governments of the two states. The joint exercises, if approved, may take place in 2011 or 2012.

- First time Russian pilots will be able to compare their skill with the famous Indian aces. Till now it took years for Ru AF to recovery the level of training after 90th/early 00 fall in financing. It's the most logical cause why such exercises were not occurred till now.


  1. "famous Indian asses"- Igor, are you sure that is "asses"? I believe it should be "aces". "Asses" mean male donkeys:)

  2. I think there is a lot Russian Pilots can learn from Indian counterpart through these exercise.

    IAF pilots has got great exposure in the past few years jointly exercising with countries like US , France,Israel ,UK and others and participated in Red Flag recently gaining good experience in joint operation , interoperability and honing its skills.

    Russian Air Force pilots though good has been isolated lot and do not do participate in such exercises with other countries.

    Plus they have suffered a lot in the field of training in the past decades.

    Such joint exercises will greatly help Russian pilots in joint training and honing their skills plus the Indian one too can learn something from them.

  3. These exercises are rather more useful to everyone than the Indian exercises with the US.
    I kinda got the uncomfortable feeling that any information the US learned in operating with India might become part of the training information they pass on to Pakistan...
    In exercises between India and Russia each side can learn what the other can do with similar aircraft.
    Wouldn't it be cool if they agree to hold the exercises in 2011 and it involves Su-35s and Su-30MKIs and upgraded Mig-29s and Su-34s?

  4. Igor
    Any idea what aircraft will Russia send if these exercises are held in India?

  5. Igor, I have couple of questions.
    Among the world's air defense systems or anti-aircraft systems, Russian S-300 missiles and higher versions are considered to be the best. Some countries including China and India operate S-300 missiles; China has more S-300 missile battery than India.

    I wonder why India is not asking for collaboration with Russia to develop its own air-defense missile system? Of course, Russia is far far ahead of India and probably it doesn't need any such collaboration. But Is there any chance of collaboration similar to the one on BraMos Cruise Missiles?

    Recently, there are a lot of media reports on the interests shown by Indian Defense Ministry on American Patriot System. But at the same time, defense forces are not so interested in American Patriot Missile defense. Even DRDO preferred to go alone and achieved a great deal of success (at least they claim) in home-based air-defense technology.

    How mature is India's own air defense system? And is there any chance for Russia-India collaboration in air-defense system? Or purchase of S-400/500 air-defense system by India?

    I also would like to know whether you have any knowledge on India's 'indigenous' (but built with the help of Russia) nuclear submarine-Arihant. I was very disappointed that the nuclear reactor is 100% ready only now and waiting for other systems to become operational for sea trial. What are the "other systems" mentioned by the DAE Chairman? If that is the case, its sea trial will not start before late 2011. If this submarine is not yet ready, why did Indian Govt announce this submarine's launch in 2009? I know this question should be directed to an India defense expert, but I do not expect to hear any technical info from any one of them.

    Thank you.

  6. ^^^^ India does not operate S-300 as far as open source goes, definitely not in any meaningful no.


  7. Regarding what aircraft the Russians might take to this exercise, they will want to take their best, but they will also need to be in service aircraft.
    In my opinion that means they will take Mig-29SMT, Su-27SM, and most likely Su-34. They might even take Mig-31BM perhaps.
    What they would like to take would be Mig-35 and Su-35 and perhaps T-50 and Su-34 but except for Su-34 they simply wont have operational units equipped with these aircraft.
    Having said that they will know the Mig-29SMT and the Su-34 and the Su-27SM all inside out by the time of the exercise which will make it more valuable for both sides.

    Regarding joint development of SAMs I am sure the Russians are open to joint development of something with the Indians, but I think Russian plans are pretty much already set with Vityaz, Morfei, S-400, S-500, and of course all the other systems they are working on like the replacement for Igla, and new improved models of Pantsyr, Tor, BUK, etc etc.
    BTW nuclear powered submarines are incredibly complex and expensive items and when it is a new design (ie first in her class) then there are always a lot of problems to solve and most problems are not even apparant till the ship hits the water and the crew tries to get it to work. That is when you find the sonar isn't working as well as it should and you have to find out why, or something else is interfering with something.
    Subs are not fully tested till they enter service and even then they might not be fully operational till everything is solved and the solutions are tested to make sure they both work and don't cause other problems.
    Congrats by the way... not everyone is making nuke subs.

  8. What I meant by the joint development of SAMs with Russia is that they already have plans but as shown with their work on the Pantsir with UAE and the Vityaz with South Korea they are happy to work with other countries with specific needs and wants regarding SAM design. If you want to spend the money they will do the work and if you want to share the work I am sure they will accept those terms too. The resulting SAM might not get into Russian service but it should suit India better than any off the shelf purchase simply because of their input into the design.
    Wont be cheap though.

  9. ^^

    India is developing barak-8 with israel which will also have a land based variant.

    S-300 is passee Israelis had no trouble clobering syria's nuke batteries supposedly protected with S-300.

    S-400 and 500 are more capable but Russia refused to share/jointly develop the tech..

  10. Hahahahahaha.... Israelis had no trouble with the Syrian air defences because Syria has no S-300s or even Pantsyrs.
    The Israelis didn't even face Syrian air defences because they hacked into the system and basically made sure existing Syrian radars were not looking in the correct direction when Israeli aircraft were vulnerable.
    Very intelligent on the part of the Israelis but if they are so afraid of existing Syrian defences I guess S-300 and Pantsyr must scare them to death.
    I think the real issue is that India probably doesn't want the cost of developing a SAM from scratch with Russia but also doesn't want to buy off the shelf either. I am sure the Russians would be happy to develop SAMs with India for India but I guess India doesn't want to spend that sort of money.

  11. Anonymous @ 6:47 PM, thats right. If indeed Israel could work around the S-300/400, then why the big hue and cry over transfer of the same to Iran? Because Iran won't be getting duds in the name of S-300/400 for sure. Israel went on to boast that if Russia went ahead and supplied Iran, then Israel would be forced to find counter measures to the same and it would make them public. Don't know if the Russian's supplied S-300/400 to the Iranians, but from what I know, the S-400 is still facing some problems.

  12. hey GarryB. are you still a member at keypubs forum ? I miss your comments.

  13. @ Anon Oct 7.
    As far as I know the S-400 is already in service with two units in Moscow and one unit in the Far East in response to North Korea seeming to be unstable at the moment.
    The only problem with S-400 is production rate and I would guess that will be stepped up over time.
    I hear different things from different people about the long range missile with 400km range, some say it is tested and ready, while others say it is not. Some say it is a standard rocket with a lofted trajectory flight path and that the main changes are in the software and that it really isn't a new missile at all.

    Not sure what to think but as S-500 with a 600km range is on its way I don't really think S-400s 400km range missiles are necessary.

    @Anon Dec 18, lost interest in Keypubs, too many posters just seemed interested in arguments rather than discussion. My main interests are in Russian and Soviet weapons and equipment so I found a forum that caters specifically to that, and though it is a relatively quiet forum I like it.