Saturday, October 17, 2009

Nerpa-Chakra bhai-bhai!

As the Russian RIA-Novosti news agency on Friday reports with reference to 'a high-ranking fleet official': the Nerpa nuclear attack submarine will enter service with Russia's Pacific Fleet in December 2009 and will then be leased out to the Indian Navy. "The submarine has undergone a range of sea trials, and [final] state tests will begin in late October or early November, after which the Nerpa will be adopted by the Pacific Fleet," the spokesman said. He said a crew of Indian submariners would undergo a course of training together with Russian specialists and servicemen in early 2010. They will subsequently operate on their own under the supervision of Russian instructors, after which the submarine will be leased to the Indian Navy under the name INS Chakra. India reportedly paid $650 million for a 10-year lease of the 12,000-ton K-152 Nerpa, an Akula II class nuclear-powered attack submarine. End of report.

The Indo-Russian special relationship in nuclear sphere is continuing despite growing Obama's pressure for 'non-proliferation', and could be only comparable to the relationship between US and GB in strategic weapons. In my humble opinion of course…


  1. but does India deserve this speacial treatment from Russia when the indian establishment headed by an american agent manmohan singh as imposed pm(very much unlelctable evn as a memebr of parliament let alone as pm)?
    the indian elite class in pay of americans and british masters have been demonizing russian arms and chinse intentions exactly at this time when the need was for Russia , china and india to join hands together aghasint american bastards-but india proved top be a trojan horse for anglosamerican mischief.

    read this article penned by MR. M.K. Bhadrakumar in asia times of 16th october ,2009.
    headed- "dragon spews fire at the elephant"


  2. Hi Igorr,

    is there any 2nd Akula2 that india would lease from russia?,initial reports indicated that we will lease 2 Akula's and tu-22m3's

    Thanks in advance for your time

  3. to anon October 20, 2009 7:28 AM:

    For now there is no any Akula class sub in building in Russia. And is no in the conservation storage. So, the only eventual way to do it: taking one from the Russian service, but no plans for reducing Russian SSN forces for now, rather - is the opposite they try to accelerate the building of 8 SSN subs of a new class and keep in service what they have already.

    However, there is at least one SSN in building with Russian input in India. So, hopely we'll see some India-built Akulas in future. Chakra will be a basis for Indian experience in Akula class exploitation.

  4. "However, there is at least one SSN in building with Russian input in India. So, hopely we'll see some India-built Akulas in future."

    SSN? Arihant is a SSBN, or do you mean another sub?
    Also there are reports that Brazil gets the hull of a Scorpene, or new Baracuda class sub to fit a indigenous developed nuclear propulsion in it. If that is allowed under UN laws and India now can build their own nuclear propulsions, we could also get hull of the new Graney class right? Another possibility for an Indo-Russian partnership I think.

  5. to Sancho:

    Could be wrong but read some news note about an Indian indigenous SSN program. In any way it would be very logical if yes. If so the most probably Russia will/has sell the Akula-II/III design. Otherwise the Nerpa's leasing lacks big sense. I suppose the leasing is a part of a prospective program for building Akula class SSNs in India, like the sold Talwar class FFGs were the start of Project 17A building in India.

  6. India has plans of building 13 nuclear subs out of which 5 will be SSBNs and 8 will be SSNs. 3 of the 5 SSBNs will be of Arihant class and will carry a max 12 nukes. The remaining two will be larger and will carry more nukes. All 3 SSBNs will be launched by 2012-2013 and wok on the SSNs will start then. Apparently the two hulls for the Arihant class SSBNs have already been brought to Vizag. The lease of the Nerpa is meant for training the crew but most importantly it is also expected to provide escorts to the Arihant during its trials and may be later too.
    What do you think Igor?

  7. to anon October 20, 2009 10:51 PM:

    I think 5 SSBNs and 8 SSNs is a good starting. The pace is persuasive too. Such assurance is very possible when a reliable project is in ur pocket, isnt it.

  8. I have the same infos like Anon, SSBNs in production, SSNs only under development. That's why I was a bit confused, because you seems to be sure that SSN are in production too.
    As Anon said, the Nerpa is mainly for training reasons and if Russia already has the succsessor, why should India take only Akula design. Also Graney should be able to carry Brahmos, Akula can't, so a partnership, or licence production would be imo a good idea.

  9. to Sancho:
    I'm impressed from your assurance in your info and the information of the reputable anon, especially while spoken about a highly secretive project. Let's see how our info will be confirmed officially.

  10. to Igor:
    The Indian SSNs may very well be based on the Akula-2 designs but merely leasing one and operating one does not give us the capability to build one. For that Russia will have to transfer a major portion of the designs and tech to us. You are linking the lease of the Nerpa with India's ambition to build an SSN of the same class. imo both are weakly correlated. Going by the specs of the Arihant and the capacity of the reactor it appears that it was originally an SSN design that was at some point tweaked to carry ballistic missiles. imo the same Arihant design can be further modified to make it an SSN and guess what it will still be similar to the Akula-2 in terms of capacity and power of the reactor.

  11. to anon October 21, 2009 5:51 PM:

    The Arihant design externally most close resembles Delta-IV SSBN. Donno specifically about its reactor, but if Russians helped by consultation for the Indian SSBN development what can prevent them from do the same with Indian SSN ambitions? We cannot exclude existance of such program while the Iceberg bottom of Indo-Russian cooperation in the strategic forces is so obvious. When considering Indian SSN development have remember:
    1) Whether starting Arikhant (ATV) building was publicly announced?
    2) How long time was between the starting of building and the first rumors about ATV has leaked to press?

  12. to Igor:
    I think we are going round in circles here. I am not ruling out Russian assistance/cooperation for our SSN program. I am pretty sure that Russia will have significant role to play in any of our nuclear sub developments- be it SSN or SSBNs of different classes. New Delhi is simply not confident enough to take up risky projects of such magnitudes alone. I am merely saying that the lease of the Nerpa has nothing to do with the SSN program. Crew trained on the Nerpa will be used to man the ATV and may be the future SSNs. But primarily it is for providing escorts for the ATV so that its trials can proceed without any fear of snooping from China and other forces in the region. If the ATV has to be tested to its fullest potential in terms of range and speed, it will need protection from an SSN only. No conventional sub can be a substitute.

  13. Igor,
    What do you think of India-Russia collaboration? for the last 5-10 years the relationship between these two nations have been downwards. Do you think, Russian Govt feels India is moving towards West? Recently, Mr. Putin visited China and Chinese think tankers started saying about the present Russia-China relation is better than never before. Do the Russians think about the danger from China? I see the only reason why Chinese want a relationship between R-C because of the minerals and oil and gas. Moreover, it is going to control the Central Asian Republics at the expenses of Russia sooner or later.

  14. To, Ram
    I think the Russians think tank are also worried about the recent tilt of India's towards West. But then the tilt was also due to the sluggish pace of Russian counterparts in expediting various ongoing projects like Admiral Gorshkov etc. But all the contentious issues have been sorted out. The Russians too have admiited this. Hopefully we shall be seeing a new beginning. MRCA? :)
    Igor your views on this.

  15. I also feel that India is a better choice for Russia than China in all spheres. India does not have hegemonistic designs as China does. Russia needs a strong and robust India to counter any potential threat from China.

  16. It's always strange to me that many people see India moving away from Russia, only because we bought some Western arms in small numbers (8 P8I, 6 C130J, possibly 6 A330 MRTT and 10 C17). Isn't it a fact that we will have 280 Flankers by 2015 and more than 1500 T90 tanks? Aren't we co-developing Pak Fa/FGFA, that surely will come in numbers of 100-150 fighters? Brahmos for IA,IN and now also for IAF, MRTA co-development fixed, new MBT and helicopter co-development under evaluation.
    All big developments are WITH Russia and all big number procurements are FROM Russia (90 Su 30 on order, 80 Mi 17, possibly 45 Mig 29K...).
    Honestly I think all this talk about India moving away is just propaganda by the media, in fact I see the Indo-Russian relationship to be closer than ever before, because it is going to be a real partnership and not only a buyer-seller relationship. That is something that nearly no western country can offer India, especially not the USA!

  17. @ Igor

    I read in a Forum that the latest Su 35 don't have a rear facing radar in the tail sting, but a brake parachute, is that true?
    Most of the infos in the net about it are pretty old, so can you tell me something about the actual status of that development?

    Regards, Sancho

  18. to ram
    The so called 'chinese experts' cannot be taken into consideration seriously since they have no independent position and are indeed a jack in the hands of Chinese FM. The aim of Beijing now is to demonstrate the 'great success of Russian-China friendship', while indeed there are no big development in the relations, and the problems remained. THe $3.5 bil or so contracts signed with Putin in Beijing is really 'a drop in the sea' if comparing with the volume of Sino -US relationship. Indeed US with China - already became the spoken 'Chimeric' union that ms Clinton said about a half of year ago. THe level of relationship between US and China is just huge and overcomes tens times both Sino-Russian and Indo-US cooperative relations. India and Russia have to gather great will and force to catch Chimerica in this aspect by accelerating mutual cooperation and bidirectional dependence of two economics.

  19. to Sancho

    It's obvious that some debates occur around Su-35 specs. Indeed the existence of tail radar on Su-family was confirmed on Su-32 only. Su-35 has Irbis with one conventional antenna (PESA).

  20. Igor,
    You are a real ambassador of India-Russia freindship.Will love to host u, if u happen to come to india by any chance!!!
    Keep the good work...

  21. I am Ram. Thanks to All for the comments.
    I want a strong friendship between India and Russia & between India-US. I also wish to see a close relationship between Russia-US-Israel. But in US and Russia there are some sections of politicians and bureaucrats want the hostility to go on between these two nations. Only reason I see is the "ego". Russians are the best people to help US in Afghanistan. The earlier US gets the help of Russia it is better for US. Similarly, the earlier Russia helps the US in Afghanistan, it is better for Russia's sovereignty and security.

    One Chinese prof told me once that hostility between Soviet Union and China helped US to make better understanding and close relation with China. Former Soviet Union's collapse catalyzed China's growth. I guess, now also a strong Russia would be a pain the ass for China.

    India, Russia, Israel and Europe and US are becoming victims of International terrorism and Chinese hegemony (it was really humorous to read when Chinese newspaper reported 'India's hegemony'). I have a Russian friend, who told me that some of the Eastern regions of Russia are mostly inhabited by Chinese immigrants. The local language spoken in those regions is Hans Chinese. Unfortunately, in Russia the population growth is downwards and the gap in population is getting filled by jihadi Muslims and Chinese immigrants.

  22. Sir, is there any possibility of purchasing the submarines at the end of lease?

  23. to Jack:

    I'm not sure the Indians are interested in the purchasing due to the high cost. Before some years when the Tu-22 deal was looming the Russians complained Indians wanted life-cycle tech warranty for the planes - something that the manufacturer could not provide for economic reasons.

  24. Hi Igor,

    I hope you mean it when u said this.....

    "However, there is at least one SSN in building with Russian input in India. So, hopely we'll see some India-built Akulas in future."

    Will it have a single hull or double hull, driven by screw or water jet propulsion?

    If its true, then good times ahead for India. Any updates on its status and is the hull being built by L&T only?

    Thanks, Hari

  25. to Hari:
    I don't know all ins and outs, but after analysis of the snippy information from the open sources, internet rumors and the fact of current Nerpa leasing, have arrived at the conclusion the a SSN project, probably Akula-II based, does exist in India. Remember how many times the sides deflated Nerpa leasing? Even the former Russian MoD did that twice or trice. At the end - Nerpa is coming :)

  26. india does not desrve the assistance russia is providing to her in 5th genenration or advanced nuclear submarine-we idnians arfe traitors and ungrateful lot-espceiallky this govt,a nd idnian middle class and media.
    manmoahn singh is NOT a spinessless puppet -he is the REAL EVIL man who has presided over selling of india to americans because he is an american agent ,
    indian are fool in thinking that he is innocent and sonia is evil itis the other way round-he is more foreiners agent than sonia-if he could get nuclear deal pssed with bribery and in hurry in parlaiment then what stops him from bringing lokpal bill through presidentail decree?
    Wikileaks show US diplomats effectively united with their local counterparts against a common enemy: the people – whether the people take the form of anti-war activists, jurors or voters in an upcoming election.manmohan singh and monteck ahulawali a are such traitors in India.
    sadly bjp is corrupt aswell and traitor, it was bjp and manmoahsn ingh who were isntrumental in removing natwar singh from foreing msintery and keralite msinter aiyayr from oil minstry because they awere acting in Indian interest in foreingn and oil minstry which was not liked by americans so americans ordered manmoahnss ignh and his bjp minions to spread rumour in order to throw those msinters out.. Ayaar and natwar were

  27. march, 2007

    --this unelectable (and three times defeated in democratic elections ) so called prime minieter manmohan singh is a blot on the face of democratic india. he is there aonbly because the anglosaxon powers wanted him there instead of sonia gandhi(who wouldnot have been that maelelable to english speaking world-master race as this stooge manmohan is). this manmohan singh has been very unpopular in democratic election losing even when there was a wave in favour of congress. he has not even let pujab select his d=congress pqarty for assembley election in 2007 so mucn unpol;ular he is. but he is very popular amnost the anglosaxon media and govert. therefore he is popular amonst the english media and all the angloamerican stooges theat you find in any thirld world aka allwi,Ahmed Chalabi(of iraqi traitor fame) mubarak types.

    manmohan singh is a yeltsin of india-very pouilar amonst enemies of india exactly because he has sold india cheap to thse amngloamericn interests.

  28. may 2nd ,1998.

    Manmohan singh,former finance minister, what is he, if not clear by now with his previous anti-india policy had been clear ,then it should become cristal clear with his recent questioning in Rajya Sabha on 15 th dec. The prime minister was giving statement on nuclear talk with america(which he should not have entered into with america anyway). As Indian policy has been defence and incoherent,He was telling about minimum nuclear deterent that India must have to which this manmohan singh asked what is the limit of minimum nuclear deterence. As if to open all the cards and play into america's hand, Manmohan singh was playing part of American interest' agent. It is the same manmohan singh who some congressmen are saying is more keen than the govt. to get lateset Insurance and patent bill( to sell out to anglo-american interest)passed by the Parliament. In stead of waiting for world situation till 2002(which is bound to change) Manmohan singh is keen to see that America's interest is served quickly. Tragedy is that this sort of person, and likes of Yaswant singh-foreign minister-who can not win a single mandate from people in democratic election,are the people made to hold important ofiice asnd ofcourse Anglo-americans like that because deviod of public support and democratic mandate, such peoples are ideal agents of anglo-American interest. All those so called reform under manmohan singh -which was supposed to do exactly opposte of what it did(example of latin america was already there) is still beieng pursued on the same logic under this American spy. Even the lesson of east asia has not been learnt. Those who talk big and bostfill in India must remember that far from being some economic power , If pursuing the same sell out of India, the country will take 50 years to reach the prosprity enjoyed by brazilian elite but will have debt and total loss of sovernity in economic and foriegn policy with in 10 years.

    US to launch WWIII to rescue 'American empire'