Wednesday, August 25, 2010

Project 667 Lada from inside

The internal rooms of Russian last generation non-nuclear submarine was show first time in video, at July's end, 2010. This sub is competing to be a basis for the next after Scorpene Indian submarine 'Project-75(I)'.


  1. Dear Igor a lot of time wost not present on line . But now we haw 3 new post thank,s a lot

  2. Last generation non nuclear sub?

    I am guessing this means that that test vessel using a compact nuclear power plant was a success and that future subs will have such a power supply as backup in the same way that western subs use AIP systems to extend the performance of diesel electric subs?

    Would make sense as a small nuclear power plant NPP would be able to supply low levels of electrical power for years and the price difference with modern AIPs wouldn't be that big.

    The power generated by a NPP wouldn't be enough for full speed or to operate all the time, but when running quiet on all electric with power supplied by batteries and NPP it will be much better than hydrogen based AIP and probably smaller and lighter too.
    Another question is if this all nuke power is policy how will that effect the development of mini subs?

  3. Hi Igor,
    What is your take on the new subs
    that Black sea fleet will receive in coming years
    Are they all going to be Project 636 Kilo-export
    (Be cause they can build them much faster than Lada's)

  4. Igor I have heard that they are facing severe problem with Lira Sonar on Lada and they are planning to replace it with something else ?

    Do they have AIP ready for Lada ? To compete in P-75I they need to have AIP.

  5. to GarryB:

    The nuclear power plant is only one of the Russian prospective technology for Lada-class submarines. Due to potentially radiation and political reasons it would not be the optimal solution for Baltic and Black seas.

    However, as it's become obvious at last time, Russian Navy lost interest for hydrogen elements, because they need too complicated and too flammable coast infrastructure.

    Now the cutting-edge prospective technology for subs is lithium elements, which are almost good as hydrogen in term of energetics, but much less flammable. According by my estimation, it could be the Russian answer for hydrogen elements and MESMA, if speaking about internal aquatoriae or export orders.

    Have to note, the current Lada capability to dive without snorkeling - 10 days is not bad and even comparable to claimed two weeks for most contemporary submarines with AIP. So even its current power elements are advanced enough, while 3rd gen subs like Kilo are limited by 5 days underneath without snorkeling.

  6. to Austin:

    1) The problem with Lada's sonar is confirmed, but according to my knowing was successfully resolved. Donno if they have an alternative for now. THis sonar is extremally good in its characteristics, the problems with it - are technologically mostly, they must fix the glitches on the serial plants. The sonar is much better than of Kilo and they say better then any other conventional sub sonar in the world.
    2) See my opinion about current Russian development in AIP. The best solution IMHO is lithium elements: less flammable then hydrogen and there is no limitation in electric power.

  7. to PakFa fan:

    indeed, the Black-Sea Fleet will get 3 636M pr. subs and 3 Talwar-class frigates by quick order. They will indeed almost fully replicate the export version with except of communication. The rational is: to fulfill the needs of Black-Sea fleet as soon as possible, using the opportunity window opened with Yanukovich victory in Ukraine and 'Kharkov's Agreements' about Sevastopol. Also they need a mass of ships in Mediterranean Sea, since the base in Syria is recovered and an even new base (in Livia) is under negotiation. They dont need super-duper rechnologically advanced vehicles in Mediterranean theater, but need them urgently, for example for not to send a ship from Kaliningrad (Konigsberg) to hunt Somali pirates.

  8. Thanks Igor!
    What do you think where the base for those Kilo subs will be? Sevastopol (reviving old Soviet sub base) or even Abkhazia with new built sub base or some other new base maybe

    Hmmm "Somali pirates" maybe but also future annexation of Moldavia by Romania and tension over Transdnestria is good reason to have convincing Black sea fleet in the region

  9. Supposedly in the past the Rubin Design Bureau had teamed up with Navantia to offer variants of the Amur-1650 and 950 dubbed the 'S800' and 'S1000'. Is that what they intend to do this time? I think the Lada's deficiencies can be compensated by substituting a Western sonar suite and AIP.

  10. Igor what do you exactly mean by Lithium Element ? Is this a new type of AIP or you mean the Lithium batteries.

    AFAIK AIP is mandatory for P-75I submarine.

  11. To PAK FA fan:
    ==What do you think where the base for those Kilo subs will be? ==

    - Sevastopol. It's politically important for Russia to strength its presence in Crimea, to use the option in full.

    to Gautam:
    ==Supposedly in the past the Rubin Design Bureau had teamed up with Navantia to offer variants of the Amur-1650 and 950 dubbed the 'S800' and 'S1000'. Is that what they intend to do this time?=

    - Certainly it's what they intend to do, but it's not ALL that they do. Cooperation with Navantia - is only one direction in their plans.

    to Austin:
    ==Igor what do you exactly mean by Lithium Element ? Is this a new type of AIP or you mean the Lithium batteries.==

    - Can you explain me a bit more, what you ask about? Your question is look to me like 'is hydrogen elements is a type of AIP or it's just a hydrogen batteries?' I think the right answer is ' both'.

    === AFAIK AIP is mandatory for P-75I submarine.==

    - Nice, lithium elements are the most promissing AIP technology IMO. I have explained why.

  12. Thanks Igor for clearing some things up.

    I don't think Russian sub makers will want to tie their own hands by using western components.
    Much of the sales the Russians make (Iran, etc) would be made rather difficult or impossible with western parts.
    Obviously it makes more sense to work out the problems themselves so they can sell their own products and make money themselves.
    Using French thermal sights and electronics on their T-90s increased the performance of the vehicles greatly but also greatly increased the cost beyond all but their riches traditional customers. India can afford such things but Afghanistan and Syria etc etc etc cannot.

  13. BTW despite the radiation risk I hope they continue with those mini nuclear power plants.
    In the next few decades such systems will be essential for bases on the moon where electricity is generated whether the sun is shining or not and the excess heating can be used to maintain temperatures on a moon or mars base.

  14. Thanks Igor

    Off topic...
    USSR had huge advantage in laser to U.S. , they have shoot down plane in 1984 tests with their airborne laser.
    What is your position on reviving of that Russian laser program?
    Is it worth it of investment or not?

  15. hi igor,
    This Lithium elements thing are u suggesting using Lithium ion battery tech(scaled up version of what's in laptops and cellphones) in place of conventional batteries???
    or is this something totally different??

  16. to anon

    It would be basically the well known Lithium ion technology, just navalized and improved for using in submarines.