Monday, February 8, 2010

The Russian 5th generation

An interesting article of Peter Butowsky appeared in the French Air&Cosmos Magazine. I put here the original text and the translation in Russian. From interesting moments could be noted a sentence that the light 5th gen tactical aircraft variant will be developed starting from 2012.





La cinquième génération
Sukhoï a fait voler le 29 janvier un prototype du T-50, incarnation de l'ambition de Moscou de s<
plotr butowski (moscou) avec guillaume steuer
L'événement est historique. C'est le 29 janvier, à Komsomolsk-sur-l'Amour, que le dernier-né des bureaux d'études Sukhoï a pris son envol. Le prototype du T-50, développé dans le cadre du programme étatique PAK FA (Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Front ovoi Aviatsii, ou "future plate-forme d'aviation tactique"), a quitté le sol pour un vol d'essai de quarante-sept minutes, piloté par Sergueï Bogdan. D'après le communi­qué (laconique) publié par Sukhoï pour l'occasion, le vol s'est déroulé "avec succès, en conformité totale avec les objectifs fixés". Ce premier vol a été mis à profit pour véri­fier "la manœuvrabilité de l'avion, le bon fonctionnement des moteurs et des sys­tèmes primaires, ainsi que la rétraction et le déploiement du train d'atterrissage". C'est donc depuis l'usine KnAAPO de Komsomolsk, berceau du Su-27, du Su-30MK, du Su-35 et du Superjet 100 que le dernier-né a fait son vol inaugural. Le déplacement du programme d'essais vers le centre d'essais en vol de Joukovski, dans la banlieue du Moscou, devrait avoir lieu au cours des prochains mois pour mener à bien des essais plus avancés. Avion de combat de nouvelle génération, le T-50 incarne l'ambition de Moscou de se doter d'un appareil de supériorité aérienne comparable au F-22A Raptor américain. Dans sa littérature officielle, Sukhoï décrit de la manière suivante les caractéristiques de base du futur PAK FA : une capacité d'at­taque air-air, air-sol et air-mer tout temps; une manœuvrabilité "exceptionnelle", y compris à vitesse supersonique; une faible signature dans les bandes radar, optique et infrarouge; enfin une capacité à utiliser des pistes courtes pour décoller et atterrir. Physionomie. A quoi ressemble donc la cinquième génération russe? En le compa­rant au Su-27UB qui a servi d'avion d'ac­compagnement pendant son vol inaugural, il est possible de se faire une idée assez pré­cise des dimensions du T-50. L'appareil
semble globalement plus petiî que la famille Flanker, affichant une envergure d'environ 14met une longueur proche de 20 m. La masse au décollage de l'appareil sans emports externes avoisinerait les 21-22 tonnes, soit un rapport poussée-poids d'environ 1,4 grâce à deux réacteurs développant 15 tonnes de poussée unitaire. La masse maximale au décollage du T-50 peut être estimée à une trentaine de tonnes, avec une portée utile estimée à 3.000 Ion sans ravitaillement ni réservoirs externes.
Les photographies et vidéos publiées par l'avionneur confirment une apparence générale dévoilée au printemps 2007 par une vue d'artiste publiée de manière
Manœuvrabilité "exceptionnelle "
fugace sur le site du motoriste NPO Saturn. Image dont il est possible de pen­ser qu'elle était issue d'une présentation destinée à une délégation d'officiels indiens. Malgré le saut génêrationnel, on reconnaît la "patte" de Sukhoï sur le T-50 : deux réacteurs largement espa­cés, des entrées d'air rec­tangulaires, partie avant du fuselage suréle­vée, imposant "dard" à l'arrière de la double dérive, boule optronique, etc. Les différences majeures sautent aux yeux lorsqu'on examine l'engin vu du dessus ou du dessous. Conformément aux premières estimations, l'avion présente une voilure triangulaire aux extrémités rognées, avec une flèche d'environ 53° et des bords de
La masse au décollage de l'appareil sans emports externes avoisinerait les 21-22 '
La masse maximale au décollage peitt-êire estimée à une tremaine de tonnes,avec une portée uiik
AIR & COSMOS -K° 2204 - 5 H-VRIER 2010


russe prend son envol
doter d'un appareil de supériorité aérienne comparable au F-22A Raptor.
fuite affichant une flèche négative de 10°.La voilure est augmentée d'importants apex dont la partie avant est mobile et sert de générateur de vortex - une solution inno­vante pressentie exclusivement sur des vues d'artiste diffusées par "Air & Cosmos"
(cf. A&C n° 2200). Ceux-ci remplacent les canards de la famille Su-30 et en reprennent d'ailleurs la forme générale. L'empennage vertical de l'appareil est quant à lui composé de deux dérives de taille très réduite incli­nées vers l'extérieur à environ 25°, intégra-
nés, pour un rapport poussée-poids d'1,4,
3.000 km sans ramtaillemRnt ni réservoirs externes.
AIH&COSMOS-N°2204-5FÉVRIER2010
lement mobiles et présentant une forme similaire à celle de la voilure principale. Tous les plans sont organisés, à la manière du F-22A, d'après le principe d'alignement des bords d'attaque et de fuite, permettant de focaliser le retour des ondes radar incidentes dans un faible nombre de directions. Sans être poussée à l'extrême, la recherche de furtivité se traduit aussi par l'emport des armements en soute, des veines d'en­trée d'air que l'on devine en forme de "S" pour masquer les aubes de compresseur sur le secteur avant et un fuselage avant formé de surfaces planes qui n'est pas sans rappeler celui du F-35. D'autres points seront améliorés par Sukhoï, comme la verrière, dont le montant principal en métal devrait disparaître sur les versions de production, et l'application de matériaux absorbants les ondes radar. D'après la télé­vision russe, Sukhoï aurait affirmé que la surface équivalente radar duT-50 devrait être divisée par 40 comparativement à celle du Su-30.
Armement. Les premières images du 1-50 laissent entrevoir deux soutes à armement principales disposées en tandem sous l'in­trados du fuselage et occupant tout l'es­pace laissé vide sur un Su-30, du train avant aux tuyères des réacteurs. Longue d'environ 4,7 m et large de plus d'1 m, chacune de ces soutes pourrait accueillir deux missiles air-air longue (type 810) ou moyenne portée (K-77M), ou bien encore deux missiles air-sol Kh-38M ou antiradar Kh-58UShK. Il y a trois ans (les premières images datent de l'été 2007), le Su-47 Berkut a été aperçu volant avec une nou­velle soute à armement, longue de 4,7 m et large de 0,9 m - une configuration qui aurait servi à tester la soute duT-50. En plus de ces deux soutes en tandem, le prototype du T-50 présente aussi deux "bosses" assez étroites sous l'emplanture de voilure, qui pourraient servir à accueillir un missile courte portée (R-73/K-74) cha­cune. Toutefois, l'absence de trappe visible
Six avions pour le programme d'essais
  T-50-KNS : Kompleksnyi Nsturnyi Stend (cellule d'essais grandeur nature), utilisé pour l'ajustement au sol des différents élé­ments de structure. Cet appareil a fait ses premiers essais de roulage le 22 décembre 2009 à Komsomolsk-sur-rAmour devant un parterre d'officiels indiens.
  T-50-0 : cellule d'essais statique. Sortie d'usine KnAAPO le 29 octobre 2009.
  T-50-1 : premier appareil destiné aux essais en vol. Premiers essais de roulage réalisés le 22 janvier 2010 et vol inaugural sept jours plus tard, le 29 janvier 2010.
  T-50-2 : deuxième cellule d'essais en vol. Devrait rejoindre le programme d'essais d'ici la fin de l'année.
  T-50-3 : état inconnu. Pourrait être utilisé pour des essais de fatigue.
  T-5O4 : premier appareil doté de ses équi­pements de mission. Servira à définir le standard de préproduction du T-50.
11


TECHNOLOGIE
LE T-SO SOUS TOUS LES ANGLES
1  Radar Shl21 avec une antenne frontale à balayage électronique à modules actifs (bande X) et quatre autres réparties sur les flancs.
2   Optronkjue secteur frontal (maquette).
3   Détecteur d'émissions infrarouges.
4  Appendice caudal, typique des Su-30, suscep­tible d'abriter un radar arrière.
5  Dérive d'empennage monobtoc inclinée à 25e.
6  Empennage horizontal monobloc sur support en titane.
7  Emplacement diiCiinon (un 30 mm monotiibe).
8  Réserve pour une perche de ravitaillement en vol escamotable.
9   Partie mobile de l'apex.
10  Volet de bord d'attaque supposé contenir une antenne (bande L) du radar.
11  Raperon à deux sections.
12  Réacteur Satum AL41F1 (117) avec tuyère mobile dans le plan vertical.
13  Soute des deux parachutes de freinage.
14  Soutes à armements en tandem avec trappes "furtives".
15  Canotage de 4,5 m de long susceptible d'abri­ter un missile de combat air-air, un radar à balayage latéral ou d'autres systèmes électro­niques, la partie avant cache le mécanisme des volets de l'apex.
16  Emplacements pour emporte d'armements extérieurs (deux sous chaque aile, un sous chaque fuseau moteur).
17  Réservespouréjecteursdeteurresoptiqueset électromagnétiques.
18   Enveloppe extérieure des conduits d'air (en "S" vertical) entourant les parties chaudes du moteur.
Une longue histoire
Peu de temps après le lancement de la pro­duction en série des MiQ-29 et Su-27, la Russie pensait déjà à leur succession. On en veut pour preuve le lancement en juin 1986 par Moscou de deux programmes : le futur chasseur lourd MR (MiG 1.42), et le futur chas­seur léger LR, tous deux confiés aux bureaux d'études de MiG et dont la mise en service était prévue aux alentours de 2000. De son côté, Sukhoï héritait d'une faible charge de tra­vail avec le développement d'un avion expéri­mental doté d'une voilure à flèche inversée et alors baptisé S-32. Mais ['effondrement de l'URSS a évidemment bouleversé ces plans. De fait, un seul prototype du MR fut construit et achevé en 1994. Baptisé MiG 1.44, il ne vola qu'à deux reprises, en février et avril 2000. Grâce à ses ventes export et des finances un peu moins limitées, Sukhoï fut à même de faire voler son prototype d'avion à flèche inverse, renommé S-37 puis Su-47
Berkut et qui a réalisé plusieurs centaines de vols d'essai. Ces deux programmes ont depuis longtemps été annulés, mais Sukhoï a conservé son Berkut qu'il utilise aujourd'hui comme banc d'essai volant. Le renouvellement des chasseurs russes fut relancé le 26 avril 2002, lorsque Sukhoï fut choisi pour mener à bien le programme PAK FA. En octobre 2004, l'avionneur remit au gou­vernement son projet initial de chasseur T-50, qui fut accepté deux mois plus tard. Alexander Davidenko fut alors nommé concepteur en chef du nouvel appareil. A ce jour, le pro­gramme PAK FA se déroule dans le respect du calendrier fixé. Début 2006, le premier vol de l'avion étaît en effet annoncé pour la fin 2009. D'après Sukhoï, le programme bénéficie de tous les crédits gouvernementaux promis : le projet est financé depuis 2006 par le minis­tère de l'Industrie, le ministère de la Défense et en partie sur fonds propres par Sukhoï.
sur l'avion d'essai peut aussi laisser penser qu'il s'agit de nacelles abritant des équipe­ments électroniques, type contre-mesures ou radar à balayage latéral. Sous la voilure, des provisions existent également pour l'at­tache de six pylônes supplémentaires, dont deux accrochés sous les entrées d'air. Avîonique. Le développement des systèmes duT-5û se déroule au rythme prévu, essen­tiellement grâce aux travaux en cours sur le programme Su-35 (deux prototypes en vol depuis 2008) avec lequel les versions ini­tiales du PAK-FA partageront l'essentiel de l'avionique, notamment la planche de bord et les équipements de communica­tion-navigation.
Le T-50 doit en revanche être doté d'un tout nouveau radar de bord qualifié de "multifonctions". Baptisé Shl21 et déve­loppé par l'institut Tikhomirov NIIP, ce système a été présenté pour la première fois au salon Maks 2009 (cf. A&C n° 2184). Il doit être composé de cinq antennes à balayage électronique actif
AIRftCOSMOS-N°22Q4   5FFVRIER2010


(AESA) : trois en pointe avant (une fron­tale et deux latérales en bande X - configu­ration également envisagée à l'origine du programme F-22A) et deux en bande L dans les bords d'attaque de voilure. Un ensemble qui, d'après Tikhomirov, pour­rait être complété par un radar en bande Ka (millimétrique) emporté en nacelle. La détection et l'identification de cibles aériennes seront également possibles grâce à une boule optronique, caractéris­tique de la famille Flanker, implantée à l'avant du cockpit et dont la forme est déjà visible sur le prototype du T-50; celle-ci est développée par l'usine UOMZ d'Ieka-terînbourg.
Propulsion. Pour l'heure, le prototype du T-50 est propulsé par deux réacteurs AL-41F1 (article 117), développant chacun 14,7 tonnes de poussée unitaire. Ce réac­teur est une version évoluée de PAL-41F1S (117S) de 14,2 tonnes qui équipe le Su-35. Les premiers essais en vol de PAL-41F1 ont commencé le 21 janvier 2010 à Joukovskij à bord d'un Su-27 banc d'essai (n° 710). Dès le début des années 2000, la motorisation du PAK-FA devait être divisée en deux étapes : les prototypes et le début de la série seraient motorisés par PAL-41F1, tandis que le reste de la production serait doté de réacteurs plus puissants, développant près de 16 tonnes
L'ami indien
Plus petit que le Flanker.
Le T-50 affiche une envergure d'environ 14 m.
S'il est appelé à devenir le futur chasseur de cinquième génération russe, te T-5Q doit tout de même beaucoup à une volonté de l'Inde de se doter elle aussi d'un tel appareil. Les premières discussions entre Moscou et New Delhi sur te sujet remontent à juin 2001. Ce n'est toutefois qu'en janvier 2003 que les deux nations signent une lettre d'intention pour le développe­ment conjoint d'un nouveau chasseur. Deux projets furent alors présentés à la délégation indienne : le T-50 de Sukhoî et te LMFS de MiG. Au cours d'une visite à Moscou en novem­bre 2005, ie ministre indien de la Défense Praaba Muherjee réaffirmait sa volonté de par­ticiper au développement, aux essais et à la production en série du futur appareil. Ce n'est qu'en octobre 2007 que le nouveau ministre indien de la Défense, A. K. Antony, signait avec son homologue russe un accord intergouvernemetal pour le développement conjoint du T-50 de Sukhoï. Accord qui prë-voyait alors un partage à 50-50 des efforts
de poussée et affichant une masse plus faible et des coûts d'exploitation réduits. Publié en 2006, l'appel d'offres pour ce nouveau réacteur avait été annulé en mai 2007, après le dépôt des réponses de NPO Saturn et MMPP Saliout, et n'a tou­jours pas été relancé. En janvier 2010, le directeur de Saturn, Ilya Fedorov. confiait qu'une nouvelle compétition devrait être lancée au premier trimestre de cette année. Et après? Qu'en est-il de l'avenir du pro­gramme d'essais du T-50? A l'heure actuelle, trois celiules d'essais en vol sont prêtes ou en produc­tion, ainsi que trois cel­lules destinées aux essais au sol. De plus, trois appareils bancs d'essai volants sont mobilisés par le programme : les nouvelles commandes de vol et certains éléments de structure sont testés à bord du Su-47 Berkut; le réacteur AL-41F1 vole à bord du Su-27M n° 710, tandis que les essais du radar Shl21 doivent commencer cette année à bord du Su-30MK2 n° 503. A en croire le planning annoncé par Sukhoï, les essais constructeur doivent durer jusqu'en 2012, après quoi l'appareil sera transféré au centre militaire d'Aktoubinsk pour obtenir sa qualification étatique. A l'issue du vol inaugural, le Premier ministre Vladimir Poutine a ainsi déclaré que les premiers appareils de préproduction seraient livrés au centre d'évaluation opé-
Revue de conception en 2012
de financement, de production et de concep­tion. Ce dernier point devant toutefois être limité à l'adaptation par l'Inde du T-50 à ses propres besoins (le pays ayant déjà fait état, entre autres, de sa volonté d'exploiter un appareil biplace). Toutefois, peu après la pre­mière présentation de l'avion aux officiels indiens en décembre 2009, la presse indienne faisait état d'une participation "à hauteur de 25 %" de l'Inde dans le pro­gramme, affirmation que Sukhoï n'a pas sou­haité commenter.
New Delhi devrait commencer à partir de 2017 la production du nouveau chasseur, dont la version indienne est pour l'heure bap­tisée FGFA. Elle devrait être menée par l'usine d'Hindusîan Aeronautics Limited (MAL) à Nasik, une fois que celle-ci aura achevé la production sous licence du Su-30MKI. A en croire les déclarations indiennes, 250 appa­reils pourraient être assemblés pour les besoins de la force aérienne de New Delhi.
rationnelle de Lipetsk en 2013, et que le lancement de la production en série était attendu pour 2015.
En 2012, une première revue de concep­tion devrait être menée et décidera de l'avenir du programme. L'une des déci­sions cruciales devrait porter sur la moto­risation du T-50 : l'échec du premier appel d'offres pour le futur réacteur du PAK FA révèle un réel problème en termes de recherche & développement chez les motoristes russes, qui semblent avoir de grandes difficultés à augmenter de manière significative les perfor­mances des réacteurs actuels. D'aucuns estiment à une décen­nie le temps nécessaire à la mise en pro­duction d'un tout nouveau réacteur cor­respondant aux spécifications souhaitées pour le PAK FA.
Il est aussi probable que soit lancé en 2012 un programme de nouveau chasseur léger remplaçant de la famille MiG-29, qui incorporerait les nouvelles technologies mises au point et validées sur les proto­types du T-50. Il est possible que le déve­loppement de ce futur chasseur soit mené par les bureaux d'études de RSK MiG, réunis aux côtés de ceux de Sukhoï sous une même direction, celle de Mikhaïl Pogossian, qui est aussi à la tète de la divi­sion avions de combat de l'United Aircraft Corporation (UAC). •
AIR & COSMOS - N° 2204 - 5 FÉVRIER 2010
 Translation to Russian:

Русское 5-е поколение начинает взлёт

"Сухой" осуществил 29 января полёт прототипа Т-50, воплощения московских амбиций по созданию машины завоевания господства в воздухе, сравнимой с Ф-22 "Рэптор".

Событие историческое. Оно произошло 29 января в Комсомольске-на Амуре, где крайний "новорожденный" КБ Сухого совершил свой взлёт. Прототип Т-50, разработанный в рамках государственной программы ПАК ФА и пилотируемый Сергеем Богданом, покинув землю для испытательного полёта продолжительностью в 47 минут. После лаконичного коммюнике, по случаю опубликованного "Сухим", полёт был "успешным, в полном соответствии с поставленными целями". Первый полёт был осуществлён для проверки "маневренности самолёта, нормальной работы двигателей и основных систем самолёта, а также уборки и раскрытия шасси". Итак, это с территории завода КнААПО в Комсомольске, колыбели Су-27, Су-30МК, Су-35 и СуперДжета-100, откуда "новорожденный" совершил свой первый полёт. Перевод программы испытаний в центр лётных испытаний в Жуковском, в пригороде Москвы, должен произойти в течении ближайших месяцев с целью успешного проведения более развёрнутых испытаний.
Боевой самолёт нового поколения, Т-50, является воплощением амбиций Москвы по получению машины завоевания господства в воздухе, сравнимой с американским Ф-22 "Рэптор". В официальных изданиях "Сухой" описывает основные характеристики будущего ПАК ФА в следующем ключе : способность к нанесению ударов "воздух-воздух", "воздух-земля", "воздух-поверхность" в любых условиях, исключительная мавренность, в т.ч. и на сверхзвуковой скорости, малая отражающая поверхность в РЛ, оптическом и инфракрасном диапазонах и, наконец, способность использовать укороченные ВПП для взлёта и посадки.

Облик. На что же похоже 5-е русское поколение ? Если сравнивать его с Су-27УБ, который служил в роли самолёта сопровождения во время первого полёта, то возможно уже сейчас составить себе достаточно точное представление о размерах Т-50. Машина представляется в целом меньшего размера, нежели семейство "Фланкеров", демонстрируя размах крыльев около 14 метров и длину близкую к 20 метрам. Взлётная масса машины без внешних подвесок составляет около 21-22 тонн, давая т.о. соотношение "тяга-масса" около 1,4, благодаря двум турбинам развивающим единичную мощность в 15 тонн. Максимальная взлётная масса Т-50 может быть оценена в 30 тонн, с полезным радиусом полёта в 3000 километров без дозаправки и внешних топливных баков.
Фотографии и видео-материалы, опубликованные разработчиком, подтверждают общий облик, приоткрытый весной 2007 г. в рисунке художника, мимолётно опубликованном на сайте моторопроизводителя НПО "Сатурн". Можно представить себе, что этот рисунок был из презентации для официальной индийской делегации. Несмотря на скачок поколений, можно увидеть "лапу" "Сухого" в Т-50 : две сильно разнесённые турбины, прямоугольные воздухозаборники, приподнятая передняя часть фюзеляжа, впечатляющая "стрела" позади сдвоенного киля, оптико-электронный шар и т.д.
Главные отличия бросаются в глаза, когда мы исследуем машину сверху и снизу. Согласно первым оценкам, самолёт имеет треугольное крыло с округлёнными окончаниями, стреловидностью около 53° и кромками истечения (? не знаю как точнее перевести "bords de fuite" -- АЧ) с отрицательной стреловидностью в 10°. Крыло увеличено за счёт значительного предкрылка, передняя часть которого подвижна и служит вихревым генератором -- это инновационное решение было представлено на рисунках, опубликованных в n°2200 Air&Cosmos. Они заменяют собой передние подкрылки схемы "утка" семейства Су-30 и, в целом, воспроизводят их общую форму. Вертикальное оперение самолёта состоит из двух килей значительно уменьшенного размера, наклонённых наружу на примерно 25°, полностью подвижных и воспроизводящих форму подобную основному крылу. Все виды самолёта организованы, наподобие Ф-22, таким образом, чтобы сопрячь углы атаки и истечения и сфокусировать отражение падающих РЛ волн в малом числе направлений.
Без предоставления неких крайних решений, поиск незаметности тем не менее выражается в транспортировке вооружения в закрытом отсеке, в профилировании протоков воздуха в угадываемой форме "S" для экранирования лопаток компрессора в передней полусфере и в передней части физеляжа, выполненной из плоских поверхностей, что не даёт не вспомнить Ф-35. Другие детали будут улучшены "Сухим", такие как колпак кабины, основной металлический каркас которой должен исчезнуть на серийных версиях, и применений поглощающих РЛ волны покрытий. Согласно российскому ТВ, "Сухой" заявил, что ЭПР Т-50 должна быть в 40 раз меньшей, чем у Су-30.

Вооружение. Первые фотографии Т-50 позволяют увидеть два отсека для вооружения, расположенные тандемом в нижней части фюзеляжа и занимающие всё то свободное пространство, которое было на Су-30, от передней стойки шасси до сопел турбин. Длиной примерно в 4,7 метра и шириной более 1 метра, каждый из отсеков может вместить две ракеты "воздух-воздух" большой (тип 810) или средней дальности (К-77М), или же две ракеты "воздух-земля" Х-38М или противорадарные Х-58УШК. Три года тому назад (первые изображения датируются летом 2007 г.), Су-47 "Беркут" был замечен в полёте с новым отсеком для вооружения, длиной в 4,7 метра и шириной в 0,9 метра -- в конфигурации, позволившей проверить отсек для Т-50.
В дополнение в двум этим тандемным отсекам прототип Т-50 демонстрирует также два "нароста", достаточно узких, под крыльевым оперением, которые могут служить для размещения ракет малой дальности (Р-73/К-74) каждый. В то же время, отсутствие крышки, заметной на испытываемом самолёте, позволяет подумать, что речь может идти о контейнерах, содержащих электронное оборудование, типа оборудования РЭБ или боковой РЛС. Под крыльями предусмотрено также крепление 6 дополнительных узлов подвески, включая 2 под воздухозаборниками.

Авионика. Разработка электронных систем Т-50 идёт в запланированном ритме, в первую очередь благодаря текущим работам по программе Су-35 (два лётных прототипа с 2008 г.), с которыми ранние версии ПАК ФА должны иметь одинаковую базовую авионику, в первую очередь, в том, что касается приборной панели кабины и оборудования навигации и связи.
В то же время Т-50 должен быть оснащён новой бортовой РЛС, квалифицируемой как "многофукциональная". Названная Ш121 и разработанная в НИИП им. Тихомирова, эта система была впервые представлена на авиа-выставке МАКС-2009 (см. Air&Cosmos n°2184). Она должна состоять из пяти АФАР : трёх находящихся в передней части фюзеляжа (одна фронтальная и 2 боковых, работающих в волновом X диапазоне -- конфигурация, изначально предусмотренная в программе Ф-22А) и двух, работающих в волновом L диапазоне, расположенных на передних кромках крыльев. Система, которая согласно НИИП, может быть дополнена РЛС, работающей в волновом диапазоне Ka (миллиметровом) и расположенной в контейнере. Детектирование и распознование воздушных целей также возможны благодаря оптико-электронному "шару", являющему характерным для семейства "Фланкеров", размещённому впереди кабины пилота и уже заметному на прототипе Т-50; эта система разработана на УОМЗ в Екатеринбурге.

Двигатели. В настоящий момент, прототип Т-50 приводится в движение двумя турбинами АЛ-41Ф1 (изделие 117), каждая из которых развивает 14,7 тонн тяги. Этот двигатель является улучшенной версией АЛ-41ФС (117С) тягой 14,2 тонны, которыми оснащён Су-35. Первые лётные испытания АЛ-41Ф1 начались 21 января 2010 г. в Жуковском на борту "летающей лаборатории" Су-27 (n°710). С начала 2000-х гг. моторизация ПАК ФА должна была быть разделена на 2 этапа : прототипы и первые серийные машины должны быть оснащены АЛ-41Ф1, с то время как оставшаяся часть серии будет оснащена более мощными двигателями, развивающими более 16 тонн тяги и обладающими меньшей массой и пониженной стоимостью эксплуатации.
Опубликованный в 2006 г. тендер на этот новый двигатель был отменён в мае 2007 г. после получения ответов от НПО "Сатурн" и ММПП "Салют", и до сих пор не возобновлён. В январе 2010 г. директор "Сатурна", Илья Фёдоров, заявил, что новый тендер должен быть открыт в первом картале этого года.

Что же дальше ? Каково будущее у испытательной программы Т-50 ? В настоящее время три фюзеляжа машин, предназначенных для лётных испытаний, готовы или находятся в производстве, также как три фюзеляжа машин для наземных испытаний. Также три "летающих лаборатории" мобилизованы в интересах программы : новые системы полёта, также как отдельные структурные элементы, проходят испытания на борту Су-47 "Беркут"; двигатель АЛ-41Ф1 установлен на Су-27М n°710, в то время как испытания Ш121 должны начаться в этом году на борту Су-30МК2 n°503. Если верить опубликованным "Сухим" планам, конструкторские испытания должны продлиться до 2012 г., после чего самолёт будет передан в военный испытательный центр в Актюбинске для получения государственной сертификации. После первого полёта премьер-министр Владимир Путин также заявил, что первые предсерийные машины будут поставлены в центр оперативной подготовки в Липецке в 2013 г., и что начало серийного производства ожидается в 2015 г. (странное расхождение с тем, что писалось на форуме, ПМСМ -- АЧ).
В 2012 г. будет проведён первый концептуальный разбор, результаты которого решат будущее программы. Одно из ключевых решений должно быть принято по моторизации Т-50 : неудача первого тендера на двигатель ПАК ФА проявляет настоящюю проблему в области исследований и разработок у российских мотористов, которые по-видимому имеют большие сложности в вопросе значительного увеличения мощности существующих образцов. Время, необходимое для запуска в производство совершенно нового двигателя, отвечающего желаемым требованиям для ПАК ФА, оценивается в десятилетие.
Также вероятно, что в 2012 г. будет начата программа нового лёгкого истребителя для замены семейства МиГ-29, которая впитает в себя новые технологии, доведённые и проверенные на прототипах Т-50. Возможно, что разработка нового истребителя будет проводиться КБ РСК "МиГ", объединённом с таковым "Сухого" под общим руководством Михаила Погосяна, одновременно находящимся во главе отделения боевых самолётов ОАК.

1. РЛС
2. ОЭ "шар"
3. Детектор инфра-красного излучения
4. Задний "аппендикс", в котором возможно находится задняя РЛС
5. Киль
6. Моноблочное горизонтальное оперение на титановом каркасе
7. МЕсто для пушки (одноствольная, 30мм)
8. Место для уст-ва дозаправки в воздухе
9. Подвижная часть предкрылка
10. Место предполагаемого расположение боковых РЛС
11. Двухсекционный задний элерон (?)
12. Двигатель с вертикально подвижными соплами
13. Контейнер для тормозных парашютов
14. Отсеки для вооружения
15. "Наросты" длиной 4,5 метра для ракет или электроники. Передняя часть закрывает механизм предкрылков.
16. Места для узлов внешней подвески.
17. Места для эжекторов птических и электромагнитных ловушек
18. Внешний каркас протоков воздуха в форме "S"
 translated by Андрей

91 comments:

  1. Pak Fa Technologies - Radar, Engine, etc.

    Youtube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uaS7pRGqE

    TV report on various technologies for the Russian 5th Generation Fighter Project (Pak Fa) Source: http://www.vesti.ru

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  2. Igor what is this light 5th Gen fighter , Do you have more information ? Is this from Mig design bureau ?

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  3. Translated in English

    Russian 5-th generation begins to take off

    Sukhoi implemented on January 29th flight of the prototype T-50, the embodiment of Moscow's ambitions to create a machine gaining dominance in the air, comparable to the F-22 Raptor.

    Historic event. It happened Jan. 29 in Komsomolsk-on Amur, where the extreme "newborn" Sukhoi made its takeoff. The prototype T-50, developed under the state program PAK FA and manned by Sergei Bogdanov, leaving the land for a test flight lasting 47 minutes. After a terse communique, issued on the occasion of Sukhoi, the flight was "successful, in full accordance with the objectives. The first flight was carried out to verify the "maneuverability aircraft, the normal operation of engines and main systems of the aircraft, as well as cleaning and opening the chassis. So, this is from the KnAAPO plant in Komsomolsk, the cradle of the Su-27, Su-30MK, Su-35 and the Superjet-100, where "the newborn" made its maiden flight. Translation testing program in the flight test center in Zhukovsky, outside Moscow, should occur in the coming months in order to successfully conduct more extensive tests.
    New generation of combat aircraft, T-50, is the embodiment of Moscow's ambitions to obtain machine gaining dominance in the air, comparable to the American F-22 Raptor. In the official publications of the "dry" describes the main characteristics of the future PAK FA in the following manner: the ability to strike air-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles, air-to-surface missiles in all conditions, exclusive mavrennost, including and at supersonic speed, a small reflecting surface in radar, optical and infrared ranges, and finally, the ability to use shorter runways for take-off and landing.

    Appearance. In what seemed 5-th Russian generation? If you compare it with the Su-27UB, which served as an aircraft maintenance during the first flight, you may now make a fairly accurate idea of the size T-50. The machine is generally smaller than the family "Flankerov, displaying a wingspan of about 14 meters and a length close to 20 meters. Takeoff weight machines without external suspension is about 21-22 tons, giving Thus Ratio of thrust-mass "of about 1.4, thanks to two turbines develops a unit capacity of 15 tons. Maximum takeoff weight T-50 can be estimated at 30 tons, with a useful range of flight of 3000 miles without refueling and external fuel tanks.

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  4. .Photos and video materials published by the developer, confirmed the general appearance, the half-open in spring 2007, the figure of the artist, transiently published on the website motoroproizvoditelya Saturn. One can imagine that this figure was from a presentation to the official Indian delegation. Despite the jump in generations, you can see the "paw" Sukhoi "in the T-50: two strongly separated turbines, rectangular air intakes, elevated front part of the fuselage, the impressive" boom "behind the twin keel, opto-electronic ball, etc.
    The main differences are glaring when we examine the car top and bottom. According to early estimates, the aircraft has a delta wing with rounded endings, swept about 53 ° and the edges of the end (? Do not know precisely how to translate "bords de fuite" - ACh) with a negative sweep at 10 °. The wing is increased due to significant slat, the front part of which is mobile and is the vortex generator - an innovative solution was presented in the figures, published in n ° 2200 Air & Cosmos. They replace the front Lockers canard "of Su-30 and, in general, reproducing their overall shape. Vertical empennage consists of two keels greatly reduced size, angled out at about 25 °, fully mobile and reproducing the form of such basic wing. All types of aircraft are organized, like the F-22, so that sopryach angles of attack and the expiration of focus and reflection of incident radar waves in a small number of directions.
    No provision of certain extreme solutions, search invisibility nevertheless expressed in the transportation of arms in a closed compartment, the profiling of air in the ducts guessed the form of "S" for the screening of compressor blades in the forward hemisphere and in front of fizelyazha made of flat surfaces, which prevents not recall the F-35. Other details will be improved Sukhoi, such as the hood cab, basic metal frame which should disappear in the mass-produced versions, and applications of radar wave absorbing coatings. According to Russia's TV, "Sukhoi said that the ESR T-50 should be 40 times smaller than the Su-30.

    Armament. First photos of T-50 can see the two compartments for weapons, placed tandem at the bottom of the fuselage and occupy all the space, which was the Su-30 from the nose landing gear to the turbine nozzles. With a length of about 4,7 meters and a width greater than 1 meter for each of the compartments can hold two missiles, air-to-air high (Type 810) or medium-range (K-77М), or two rockets at an air-to-surface X 38М or protivoradarnye X-58USHK. Three years ago (the first images date from the summer of 2007), and Su-47 Berkut was seen in flight with a new compartment for weapons, the length of 4,7 meters and a width of 0,9 meters - in a configuration that enabled us to test compartment for the T-50.
    In addition to these two tandem compartments prototype T-50 also demonstrates the two "build-up", rather narrow, under the wing feathers, which can serve to accommodate the short-range missiles (R-73/K-74) each. At the same time, the lack of cover, noticeable on the test plane, allows to think that we can talk about the containers that contain electronic equipment, such as electronic warfare equipment or lateral radar. Under the wings also provided for fastening 6 additional hardpoints, including 2 under the air intakes.

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  5. Avionics. Development of electronic systems, T-50 is proceeding as planned pace, primarily due to ongoing work on the program Su-35 (two flight of the prototype in 2008), which earlier versions of PAK FA must have the same basic avionics, primarily in the regard to the dashboard of the cab and navigation and communication equipment.
    At the same time T-50 must be equipped with a new onboard radar that are qualified as "mnogofuktsionalnaya. Named SH121 and developed in NIIP them. Tikhomirov, this system was first introduced to the air show MAKS-2009 (see the Air & Cosmos n ° 2184). It should consist of five AFAR: three located in front of the fuselage (one front and 2 side, working in a wave X band - the configuration originally envisaged in the program of the F-22A) and two working in the L wave band, located at the leading edge wings. The system, which according to NIIP may be supplemented by radar, operating in the wave range Ka (millimeter) and placed in a container. Detection and Recognition of aerial targets are also possible due to optical-electronic "ball" is characteristic of the family "Flankerov, placed in front of the cockpit and had already marked on the prototype T-50, the system is designed to UOMZ in Yekaterinburg.

    Engines. Currently, the prototype T-50 driven by two turbines AL-41F1 (item 117), each of which develops 14.7 tons of thrust. This engine is an improved version of AL-41FS (117C), 14.2 tons of thrust, which is equipped with Su-35. The first flight tests of the AL-41F1 began Jan. 21, 2010 in Zhukovsky on board a flying laboratory Su-27 (n ° 710). Since early 2000's. motorization PAK FA was to be divided into 2 stages: the first prototypes and production machines should be equipped with the AL-41F1 in while the rest of the series will be equipped with more powerful engines, developing over 16 tons of traction and with less weight and lower cost of operation.
    Published in 2006 the tender for this new engine was lifted in May 2007 after receiving responses from Saturn and MMPP Salyut, and still was not renewed. In January 2010, Director of Saturn, Ilya Fedorov, said that the new tender should be opened in the first Kartal this year.

    What next? What is the future of the test program T-50? Currently, three fuselage vehicles for flight tests, ready or are in production, as well as three cars fuselage for ground tests. Also, three "flying laboratory" mobilized for the benefit of the program: a new system of flight, as well as individual structural elements are being tested on board a Su-47 Berkut, the AL-41F1 engine installed on the Su-27M n ° 710, while the test SH121 should begin this year on board the Su-30MK2 n ° 503. According to published Sukhoi plans, design tests to continue until 2012, after which the aircraft will be transferred to a military testing center in Aktobe to obtain state certification. After the first flight of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin also said that the first pre-production machine will be at the center of operational training at Lipetsk in 2013, and that the start of mass production expected in 2015 (strange discrepancy with what has been written on the forum, PMSM - ACh).

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  6. n 2012 will be held the first conceptual analysis, the results of which will decide the future of the program. One of the key decisions be taken on the motorization of the T-50: the failure of the first tender for the engine PAK FA takes this issue in the research and development at the Russian minders, who apparently have great difficulty in the issue of a significant increase in capacity of existing models. Time to start the production of a completely new engine that meets the desired requirements for PAK FA, is estimated at ten years.
    It is also likely that in 2012 the program will begin a new light fighter to replace the MiG-29, which absorbs the new technology brought and tested at the prototype T-50. It is possible that the development of new fighter will be conducted KB RSK MiG, combined with that of "Sukhoi" under the overall leadership of Mikhail Pogosyan, both located at the head of military aircraft of the KLA.

    1. Radar
    2. MA "ball"
    3. Detector infra-red radiation
    4. Rear "appendix", which is probably the rear radar
    5. Kiel
    6. Monobloc horizontal tail on a titanium frame
    7. Place for the gun (single-barreled, 30mm)
    8. Place for mouth-wa-flight refueling
    9. The movable part of the slat
    10. Place the alleged location of the lateral radar
    11. Two-piece rear aileron (?)
    12. Engine with a vertically adjustable nozzle
    13. Container for braking parachutes
    14. Bays weapons
    15. "The build-up, length 4,5 meters for missiles or electronics. The front part of the closing mechanism slats.
    16. Places to sites outside of the suspension.
    17. Designated eductors pticheskih and electromagnetic traps
    18. The external skeleton of air ducts in the form of "S"

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  7. Above was done by google!

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  8. to Austin:

    True, it can be the follow-up for the MiG's fighter-2000 early project. Detailed description is here (Russian) : http://paralay.com/pakfamig.html

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  9. Thanks Igor , so is Russia funding the project or they cancelled the Mig 5th Gen Project ?

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  10. to Austin:

    They said it is frozen till Su PAKFA program will demonstrate its unambiguous success. Because now UAC with gov financial help must concentrate all the efforts towards PAKFA completion. THey want T-50 appears on word market together with JSF.

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  11. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  12. t-50 graphic description by ria novosti:
    http://img.beta.rian.ru/images/20888/31/208883113.jpg

    first found in the bottom part of following page:
    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=51832735

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  13. stealth Mig-39 concept image:
    http://www.aviazveno.com/components/com_gk2_photoslide/images/thumbm/226217MIG39A0102.jpg
    http://www.aviazveno.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=54

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  14. Interesting, but I would suspect first of all that the new stealthy Mig will get the Mig-37 code as that is the next available.
    I also think that as engine thrust vectoring control becomes a more mature technology that vertical tails will become smaller and perhaps disappear.
    This will reduce weight and radar cross section and reduce cost and complexity and drag.
    Any 5th gen MiG fighter will be influenced by the SKAT UCAV model they revealed last year.

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  15. I was thinking about how the Russians and Indians are going to now working on a joint version of the PAK FA like they did with the Su-30MKI.
    Perhaps if the French and Israeli companies are prepared to contribute even more components than they did with the Su-30MKI would it be possible for the French government and Israeli government to consider the PAK FA-MKI for their own airforces?
    With the F-22 not for export and this new plane showing promise perhaps the joint Indian Russian EURO PAK FA-MKI might be more appealing than an F-35 that has to be sent to the US to have new weapons and sensors integrated?
    Perhaps the source codes for the F-35 might suddenly become available to the UK and the F-22 might even be offered to Israel...
    This could get interesting... :)

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  16. If our aircraft are no numerical advantage over the equal of the class enemy fighters, then set to be just having a tactical advantage over the enemy.
    Radar range detection gives us the advantage - we know the situation better than the opponent.

    The tactics of action will look like this:
    Link our T-50 is divided into two pairs (distracting and shock).
    Diverts couple includes all radar and data link to radiation, increases the speed and altitude so as to be above the enemy - in general behaves defiantly. As the name implies, the task of this group (couples) to attract the attention of the enemy.
    Meanwhile, the strike group on the contrary, is a mode of radio silence, and only receives signals (from ground radar and T-50 diverts couples). Aircraft strike group are reduced to a height below the height of the objectives. Now their enemy planes is a goal against the backdrop of space, and our T-50 Conversely, camouflaged against the background of the land (even the most sophisticated radar there are restrictions on work with the goals against the backdrop of the land - their frequent manifestation is a decrease in detection range).
    Shock couple strikes against the flank of purpose, out of range of their radars (see Figure). The coverage of radar F-22 -60 ... 70 degrees on the course. The angle between the planes, distracting and shock should be larger than 120 ... 140 degrees - then their fighters, even including its radar, can not simultaneously observe both groups.
    Diverts couple approaches the enemy in the distance a missile launch, turns and walks away, further distracting the enemy from the aircraft strike group. The task of abstracting pair does not include destruction of enemy aircraft, their mission "to pass the razor's edge" and to survive, time ran.
    Aircraft strike group to converge and attack them in one gulp with the inclusion or without the inclusion of the radar.
    http://s005.radikal.ru/i211/1002/82/0b39dca0b971.png
    (translated from: http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=61101)

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  17. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  18. GarryB , According to the work share negotiated, India will do the re-design work for converting the single-seater PAK-FA into a twin-seater FGFA.

    PAK-FA will certainly force the US to put more on the table for its F-35 partners ( tire 1 ) and this could also include parting away the source code.

    But PAK-FA will be an expensive fighter to build , maintain and operate , we may see a single engine cost effective Mig 5th Gen fighter

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  19. Igor could you do an article about Russia's MS 21 aircraft plz.
    besides civilian stuff this seems ideal to replace your maratime patrol,AEW etc aircraft.

    Also Iran may be interested in the PS-18 powered model since it will not have GTF option.
    plz comment also what are russia's plans for widebody aircraft ?

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  20. APA Assessment on PAK-FA

    http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html

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  21. what will be u.s.a.f. reaction?
    http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/3175/F-16%20ejection.jpg
    http://www.militar.org.ua/foro/todo-sobre-el-jf-17-t17026.html

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  22. I agree the PAK FA will not be a silver bullet.
    To be effective it will need to be part of an operational network of air and ground defences.
    Effective defences are layered with the multiple layers complimenting each other.
    Ground radar for example is fixed and vulnerable, but it offers a range of search frequencies including anti stealth frequencies.
    It also denies the enemy the option of flying high at efficient heights where the only threat is enemy aircraft which can be dealt with because airbases are large fixed sites that can be targeted with cruise missiles and large high altitude SAMs have the same issue in that they are expensive and largely fixed and easy to spot with satellite coverage.
    Each part on its own can be overwhelmed with numbers.

    Regarding the joint development of the PAK FA with India I really do believe that the PAK FA-MKI will be largely the Russian PAK FA we have seen but with a longer cockpit canopy that can be a single or two seat design like the Mig-29M2.
    I think the Russians are the experts on stealth and the contribution from the Indians will be the avionics and sensors being replaced with Israeli and French and Swedish and South African etc etc components and perhaps even Brazilian components as well.
    In some areas the foreign stuff will be better than the Russian stuff and in other areas the Russian stuff will be better but either way it creates an aircraft that can be sold on the international market without compromising the Russian model PAK FA while offering performance that is not inferior.
    I would expect some customers wont like Israeli or western components and may get first gen Russian 5th gen stuff that is similar to that equipment fitted to the Su-35BM.
    Other countries will be cleared for anything, but the clearance comes from India and the source countries involved of course.
    Regarding a single engine 5th gen Mig, they certainly have experience with light single engine fighters like the Mig-15 and Mig-21 and of course larger heavier (and largely underated) single engine aircraft like the Mig-23 and -27.
    I think there is room for another light and cheaper 5th gen fighter, especially if they can make one for their future aircraft carriers with either EM cats, or STOBAR like the Mig-29 and Su-27 before it.

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  23. sir,

    when the Su-35S becomes operational what will be its generational status?
    will it be gen 4.6 or 4.7 or 4.8 ?

    thnx

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  24. CLARIFICATION!!!

    The PAK FA apparently is not flying with 117S as everyone thinks but a brand new engine from NPO Saturn/FNPTS MMPP Salyut.
    Please could you clarify exactly what it is ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA

    The links given in the article lead to NPO saturns russian language site the english website doesn't have any info about this.
    Could u please do the honours?Thx!

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  25. detailed diagram:
    http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=9359&sid=d2882ca2f9693c1d5fe972aa01ebdd72&mode=view

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  26. navalized version:
    http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=9342&mode=view

    two-seater version:
    http://paralay.com/pakfasu/su52.jpg

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  27. Assessing the Sukhoi PAK-FA:
    The public exposure of the Sukhoi/KnAAPO T-50/I-21/Article 701 PAK-FA or Перспективный Авиационный Комплекс Фронтовой Авиации following the 29th January, 2010, test flight has provided sufficient high resolution imagery, video camera footage, and incidental disclosures to perform an initial technical, techno-strategic, and strategic assessment of this new high performance low observable multirole fighter design.

    The observed prototype design employs an interim supercruising and thrust vectoring engine, common to the production Su-35S Flanker. The configuration is intended to validate aerodynamic and systems performance, and is clearly not intended for full validation of low observables performance. A new 35 - 40 klbf class 3D TVC supercruising engine for the PAK-FA is currently being developed by NPO Saturn.

    Link: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html

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  28. comparison with su-27:
    http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7152/463cbb4d02.jpg

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  29. to anon February 16, 2010 7:49 PM:

    The classification mentioned by you is Chineese. They use indeed 'gen 4.8' etc description. Su-35 is 4++ according to the native class.

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  30. to anon February 16, 2010 10:28 PM:

    The engine of the flying PAK FA prototype is
    '117' (not 117S). The information is reliable, from Ufa's UMPO corp. recent release and from the early interview with the Saturn's chief designer too. According to the interview 'izdelie 117' has higher then 117S thrust (15t instead of 14,5) and number of other improvement, yet allowed to export.

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  31. Indeed Igor is right here the prototype PAK-FA is powered by 117 and not 117S that powers the Su-35S and its rated thrust is 15T in reheat for 117.

    The definative production version of PAK-FA will be powered by a 5th gen engine with ( 17.5 - 18T ) thrust AL-41F1

    I think from APA artice it is clear that PAK-FA will be inferior to F-22 in overall stealth and perhaps even inferior to F-35 specially for GBR.

    I am not too sure if Sukhoi deliberately compromised all aspect stealth to gain in agility not sure this is the right trade off.

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  32. Compromises for speed are like compromises for stealth.
    They could have made it a Mach 5 aircraft if they wanted but the cost would mean it would be too expensive to make and use.

    By setting speed and stealth requirements to a reasonable level they can reduce design, production, and operational costs to a level where they can put larger numbers into service.

    The purpose of the F-22 is not national defence, it is an attack weapon that goes into enemy airspace and takes air control from the enemy.

    The purpose of the PAK FA is not the invasion of the US or Europe, but to defend Russian airspace.

    The PAK FA might be used in enemy held airspace, but its primary role will be defending Russian airspace with the support of ground radar and SAMs and with the job of defending itself and those ground radars and SAM sites as well as HQs and comm centres etc etc.
    For such a role rcs vs Patriot SAM sites is no so crucial as Patriot SAM sites will more likely be a target of the Iskander with its high speed and non ballistic flight path.
    A PAK FA that costs 60 million a plane is already superior to an F-35 that costs the Australian government over $200 million each.

    Remember in the mid 90s when the Russians offered cooperation with the Australians in aerospace technology where the Aussies could have replaced their F-18s and F-111s with a mix of Su-35s and Su-34s and joint development of new long range AAMs?
    Obviously a politically impossible option for the Aussies but today they could have Aussie designers getting ready to start joint production of some Su-35S's and expectations of getting PAK-FAs in 8-10 years time.
    The F-35 was supposed to be a stealthy F-16 but it is turning into a stealthy Buccaneer.
    Now the Buccaneer is an excellent light bomber, but it was never a fighter.
    Putting AMRAAM and ASRAAM on it is like... well you could get more AMRAAMs and ASRAAMs on a 747 with longer range and larger radar etc etc.

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  33. In the 1980s I met someone who associated himself with the financial elites. He was one of them, and today is the richest man in the world. That is to say wealthier than the ones who appear on the Forbes top ten lists, etc if they print one. I cannot call any names. He said what the public is told about existing technologies, that it is about 50-100 years behind technologies currently existing in secret. I will speak only about stuff relating to air craft's: He said that the U.S. did not own a monopoly on stealth, and that much of the hype was just that, chatter. At the time we were talking about the F117, but he did not call it that. He called it by the name used within the CIA. He said that the U.S. had built a small fleet of radar evading military planes and had devised a plan to attack Russia in the Siberia region, coming from across China. The F117s flew to the border region in China and were kept there until the plan was given a go ahead. Members in the Chinese intelligence alerted the Soviets and they went in and destroyed the planes. The conversation switched to the Falklands war, and he said that the F117 and the Sea Shadow crafts were involved. I did not really know then (until sometime later) what a sea shadow was. He said it was a type of semi-submersible craft that travelled at shallow depths to evade detection or can glide the water surface. One of the main bases for the sea shadow was built at a secret location at the New Zealand coastline. He said the Falkland war was about something else and that the reason given in the media was for cover. The U.S. launched a small fleet of the F117 and Sea Shadow crafts to aid the British side. They were secretly fighting against Soviet elite-trained forces. The Falkland Island had a secret base that was used to house the latest high-tech military hardware from the U.S. He said the Soviets had stealth too, but that their design was based on curves and is considered naturally stealthier. Unlike the U.S. design that is angular. Then he said the Soviets can see the U.S. stealth crafts using a form of native technology developed by them that is not based on radar. During the Falkland war, the Soviets found all the F117s and Sea Shadows that were hiding using stealth and destroyed them. He did mention the form of weapons used but I cannot remember them offhand. Then there was another maneuver where only the Sea Shadows were used right near the coastlines of Russia. He said all the time the Russians had the Sea Shadows under surveillance and later gave orders to destroy them. In 2009 he mentioned things that made me wide-eyed, saying: Russia will dominate the secret military sphere for the next 250 to 500 years. He spoke a little regarding that, but I will not repeat any of it here. Let's just say the Russians are not fools or backwards. Their secret high technology hardware remains impressive and intimidating.

    Much of the American knowledge regarding stealth can only apply that mindset, because they are not aware of anything else to challenge the American angular design concept of stealth. Russia remains the only contender in stealth and its secret design surpasses what the western public knows about stealth.

    The Russian public concept should be to develop a stealth hunter jet fighter plane armed with effective weapons and sensitive electronics that is able to deal with stealth intruders. They have mastered this in secret, and so a measure of the technology can be applied for public air force use.

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  34. Sorry Tony, but this guy sounds like a compulsive liar.
    The British didn't need American stealth boats or stealth light bombers to recapture the Falklands.
    The Argentinians were brave (especially their pilots) but at the end of the day the British had the right gear and knew how to use it.
    If the Argentinians had waited two or three years by which time the British would have retired all their carriers and perhaps went to the Soviets and asked to buy 200 Mig-23MLs with BVR missiles and radar then the British would have been in trouble.
    In fact just buying the Migs would have made things much harder for the British, especially if they had even a basic AWACS type aircraft for air control over the islands.
    The Mig-23 has plenty of range and missiles easily outranging the Sidewinders the Harriers used were armed with.
    Obviously now with Sea Harriers with AMRAAM or even Typhoons they would need to buy PAK FAs to prevail.

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  35. >GarryB said
    >Sorry Tony, but this guy sounds like a compulsive liar.

    You don't know him.

    >The British didn't need American stealth boats or stealth
    >light bombers to recapture the Falklands.

    That was not what the war was about.

    >The Argentinians were brave (especially their pilots) but
    >at the end of the day the British had the right gear and knew how to use it.

    No. The British and the U.S. lost that war.

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  36. Could make a good spy story though ;)

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  37. Garry yes you have a point but I think they will be developing the PAK-FA in different standards , considering they can further fine tune its stealth and if required use a 2D Stealth Nozzle and go for a all aspect stealth.

    They will keep the gold standard unto them self with all bells and whistles but expensive VVLO types , while the silver and bronze standard with suitable downgraded stuff will be available for export and wide scale internal deployment

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  38. Ronald Reagan lost the war for central and south america when he violated US agreements with Argentina regarding US support from attacks from countries outside the region.
    Many countries in the region accepted the pathetic level of military equipment they were given or allowed to buy from the US because the US guaranteed their security.
    After the US did nothing to help Argentina many countries turned elsewhere for military purchases.
    Also an F117 is a very simple bomb truck with two laser guided bombs, subsonic flight speed and mediocre range.
    From bases even in China they wouldn't reach any significant part of Russia any time soon.
    It would make rather more sense to fly them from Turkey in the 1980s.
    F-117s are difficult to track in high frequencies, but low frequency land based radar will track them easily as longer wave radar can't see shape let alone be affected by it and the thickness of the RAM applied would have little effect on such long wave lengths.
    SAMs might not be effective, but any late model Mig-23 with an IRST and its cannon would easily deal with slow not very manouverable light bomber like the F-117.

    And no, I don't know your friend, that is why I said he Sounds like a liar rather than stating that he is a liar.
    BTW if he is one of the richest men in the world could you get him to send me a cheque... I will fill in the amount... :)

    Austin, you could write a book on the number of R-27 variants there were.
    There were two models of rocket motor, one standard and one large for extra range.
    There were almost a dozen different seeker types, including semi active radar homing, infra red, active radar homing, passive radar homing, and there was a version of the semi active radar homing model designed for use over sea water (for the Su-33 and Mig-33/-29K).
    That is only 5 seeker types I hear you say... the PVO (ie air defence force) had their own seeker types and the FA (Frontal Aviation) had different ones again. A third set of seeker types were SARH and IR types for export initially, later with the passive radar homing models in an export version too.
    There is a suggestion that there were experimental IIR worked on but I have not seen any.
    There was also rumours that they had models that could detect burnt kerosene from an aircrafts engines. Not as strange as it might seem because during WWII one effective anti submarine sensor was diesel sniffers, so it is not without merit.

    My point is that it is only with the end of the cold war that we have found out about all these different options, which are otherwise secret.
    The passive radar homing model was kept secret throughout the 1990s even though it was in full operational service.
    The fact that we only have had a glimpse of the PAK FA suggests they still know how to keep secrets.

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  39. GarryB on the stealth part have you read about the story where Australian Jindalee OTH radar managed to track B-2 for a very long time when it was flying over ocean many hundred km away from Australia.

    When the Australia shared the info with US on this they actually took some prototype of Jindalee to US and tested the B-2 not sure what they did after that.

    Although B-2 is designed to take care of long wave radar , I suspect they are still trackable via OTH/BMEW radar deployed by Russian/Australian alike.

    The fact that Soviet/Russia did not loose sleep over B-2/stealth type and invested money in building similar types shows that these aircraft are trackabe with the right radar

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  40. >GarryB
    >but any late model Mig-23

    The Soviets launched their stealth crafts before the U.S. did. Their stealth crafts were used in the Falkland war. The Russian stealth crafts are still secret to the public but not to the upper tier of the intelligence community. Their crafts have no similarities to U.S. stealth designs. It is 100% Russian looking. Some publicity in a tongue-in-cheek way about them made the news in the West in late January 2010. And no, I won't give the reference to that news piece. Segments of the public have seen them, but have no idea what they are looking at and I assume it is because their design is so foreign to what the public is aware of.

    >I don't know your friend

    If you met him you would bow to him if you are an American. Just for some of the things he and his team helped thaw the U.S. from doing. The world is not one dimensional as the West would like to have you think.

    >Austin
    >Although B-2 is designed to take care of long wave radar ,
    > I suspect they are still trackable via OTH/BMEW radar
    >deployed by Russian/Australian alike.

    U.S. stealth design is friendlier to larger crafts because the equipment that is part of the stealth feature is very bulky and heavy. The Russians have no problem locating and tracking U.S. stealth crafts.

    U.S. stealth is very effective when fighting Third World militaries with old Soviet equipment. Third World militaries need to be updated.

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  41. "Apparently the designers and systems analysts have looked at the
    thorny question of "how much stealth do we want to pay for?" and have
    come up with a different answer than the F-22 designers. The fact that
    the armed forces of potential adversaries don't have S-300 and S-400
    missiles may have something to do with that answer."

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3A021e786e-04be-426b-ad32-dcbb54b90d00

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  42. comparison with yf-23, yf-22 and f-22:
    http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=9373&mode=view

    aging planes of usa:
    http://www.militaryparitet.com/forum/showimage.php?pid=31524&filename=%E2%EE%E7%F0%E0%F1%F2+%E0%E2%E8%E0%F6%E8%E8+%D1%D8%C0_1.JPG

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  43. Yes Austin, a long wave radar bounces off the entire aircraft and is not effected by the shape of the aircraft.
    This makes all the careful stealth shaping of stealth aircraft to deflect signals in different directions from where they came from.
    Equally when the incoming radar wave is tens of metres long, then a coating of material the thickness of a coat of paint will not absorb it.
    Having said that of course being able to track an F-117 is one thing... you can send any jet fighter up to intercept and shoot it down with gunfire.
    The B-2 on the other hand will be part of a first strike so its presence and approach to Russian or Soviet borders is a direct warning of attack and is something else entirely.
    A Tu-160 is a second strike weapon that will arrive over Canada about 6 hours after the ICBMs and SLBMs have pretty much destroyed all the main airbases and air defence systems in North America so like the B-52 will have little coming up against it as it launches its cruise missiles to hit population centres and other targets of interest.

    Tony:
    The only thing the Soviets did with regard to the Falklands war was to launch several surveillance satellites to watch how the Brits retook the Islands and to listen in on the communications and signals etc etc.
    The Falklands was one of the few wars during the cold war that was not a proxy war between east and west. Most Argentine equipment was the same as the British equipment from the Browning 9mm pistols to both sides using the FN FAL.
    The main difference was that the Brits were better equipped with anti tank weapons like the 66mm LAW and the Milan ATGM while the Argentines had the devastating 50 cal HMG.

    And if I did know this guy, I'd kick his a$$.
    The world would be a much better place if the really rich people would share their wealth with the poor people.

    As anonymous points out above, while the countries the US invades (iraq and afghanistan etc) don't have capable integrated air defence networks even stealth aircraft are not needed.
    The Trillions of dollars spent on stealth aircraft could simply have been used to mass produce cruise missiles. Cruise missiles could take out the large long range SAMs and Comms centres and the few airfields the enemy has. Once they are gone you don't need stealthy aircraft to deal with areas of resistance.
    Stealth makes it easier but overall it is not cheaper.
    It is a bit like the Germans with their giant siege artillery mounted on trains during WWII.
    For the cost in man hours, materials, production capacity, plus the enormous cost to use it would have been easier and cheaper to develop a 4 engine bomber and use airpower to reduce the targets they used those guns on.
    Most importantly having a 4 engine bomber would have been more flexible and versatile than a rail mounted heavy gun.

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  44. >GarryB
    >The only thing the Soviets did with regard to the Falklands
    >war was to launch several surveillance satellites to watch
    >how the Brits retook the Islands and to listen in on the
    >communications and signals etc etc.

    If that is part of the official public archives, the truth is thin. The Soviets did much more than that with their so-called satellites.
    ------

    AFAR-AESA RADAR-NO35-N050 :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK9ffuDn0A8

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  45. Can you tell me why the Soviets would support Argentina Tony?
    They had almost no trade relations at all, then or now.
    What you are suggesting is very hard to believe and I think you will need rather more evidence than what you have presented to back it up.
    Claims of secret stuff 100 years ahead of what we know about is a very bold claim.
    100 years ago aircraft were just in their infancy and in that time we have flown to the moon and sent probes out of our solar system.
    In 100 years time I would suspect the technology will look to us to be science fiction.

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  46. previous demonstrators:
    http://img.blog.163.com/photo/4xUtws0Tl63pgvrLCKZivA==/5421208051447911324.jpg
    http://image2.sina.com.cn/jc/2005-01-05/U28P27T1D256136F3DT20050105080144.jpg

    estimated comparison by chinese site
    thirtyfour diffirent warplanes and nine columns (low-res):
    http://img.blog.163.com/photo/T4dHtfTO0fxcpQczuVrX-g==/5397845628380996730.jpg
    http://youngsky001.blog.163.com/blog/static/1150263200873082515195/

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  47. >Can you tell me why the Soviets would support Argentina Tony?

    It was not like that. The Argentina military was part of the cover operation fighting for the island - old grievances with the British. Argentina was allied with the Soviets, and the U.S. was allied with the British. The war was a cover - Argentina fighting the British in the foreground, and in the background it was the Soviets fighting the U.S., with both sides using their latest advanced developments. The U.S. was defending a large military warehouse on South Georgia side of the Falklands built into a mountain that had U.S. and British weapons stored for eventual wartime use. They did not want the Soviets to get to the depot. The Soviets had no intention of stealing anything; they just wanted to destroy what was inside the large cavity of the warehouse and they did that using one of their advanced bombs.

    The alliance was made up of exiled old Soviet Communists in the US-US-British who were fighting against the new Soviets-US-Argentina. The US has a split personality. The men ruling Russia today, behind Putin, etc are the new Russians.

    The old Soviet minds associated with Bolshevism escaped to the United States and England. They and others of similar minds are behind the current War on Terror. That war is a cover. The elites laugh in private when discussing the War on Terror it’s a joke to them.

    GarryB, I am not going to write anything more about this. Don't ask anything more and if you do I won't reply.

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  48. Hi,
    Could you please shed some light on the Klimov VK-10 engine.My understanding is that it is for the Mikoyan LMFS program

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  49. I agree this is not the place to discuss this.

    Apologies to Igor for OT.

    BTW I too would like to hear more about the MiG light 5th gen fighter if anyone knows and can share.

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  50. GarryB the only Mig 5th Gen news is from this link ( 2004 )

    http://www.ato.ru/rus/cis/archive/15-2006/def/def1/

    " The MiG proposal is for a "right-sized" aircraft that would be in the realistic price range for most foreign buyers, as best described by the frequently-quoted phrase of Mikoyan Design Bureau Director Vladimir Barkovskiy: "smaller and simpler aircraft would be inferior to its competitors, but larger and more sophisticated would be too expensive." In 2002, the then-CEO of MiG Corp. Nikolay Nikitin stated that an outlay of $1.3 billion per year between 2010-2025 would be enough to cover a Russian Air Force purchase and operation of a necessary number of MiG-designed aircraft, while a heavier Sukhoi aircraft would cost $2 billion per year. MiG also estimates the export potential of its lighter-weight fighter as 3-4.5 times higher than the Sukhoi fighter.
    At the moment, one thing is certain: the LMFS will be about 30% lighter than the T-50. According to approximate assessments, the T-50 will have a normal take-off weight of 21 tons, which places it between present MiG-29 and Su-27 fighters — whereas the LMFS is likely to weigh 15 tons. Most probably, the LMFS will retain the delta canard configuration of the heavy MiG 1.44 prototype. Being asked directly about the new fighter configuration, Barkovskiy answered indirectly: "It would be illogical if we reject the experience we accumulated while developing that project [MiG 1.44]." He also mentioned that "the number of wind tunnel tests [of the 1.44 models] was vast, setting a new record in Russia. [So] we are making use of these materials and transforming them into the fifth generation aircraft."
    It is not known at the moment whether the new MiG fighter will be powered by one or two engines. Originally, the company's design had two Klimov VK-10 turbofans rated at about 10.5 tons each, which are a further development of the MiG-29's RD-33 engines. In this configuration, the aircraft entered the Russian fighter contest in 2002 and was presented to India in 2005. In addition to their application on MiG's new aircraft, the VK-10 engines also could be used to extend the MiG-29's life in its new MiG-35 version. Moreover, the RD-33/VK-10's manufacturer, the Klimov Company, has become a part of MiG Corporation's engine division, and it is obviously easier for MiG to cooperate with Klimov than with other engine manufacturers."

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  51. Hi Igor, is anything known what except the Zhuk AE will be the difference between IN Mig 29K and RN Mig 29K? Will they get the TVC nozzels too? Aren't they an advantage for ski-jump carrier starts?

    Regards, Sancho

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  52. to anon February 22, 2010 12:50 AM:

    I think, you misunderstood something: VK-10 was a very old engine, from 60th, way before RD-33. May be you meant VK-100, VK-150 APU gas-turbine engine? It was really intended for the new and future fighters including LMFS if successes. http://en.klimov.ru/production/aircraft/apu/

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  53. klimov RD-33MK:
    The engine contains systems that reduce its infrared and optical visibility.

    http://en.klimov.ru/production/aircraft/RD-33MK/

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  54. to Sancho:
    HI!
    As I can understand, only minimal differences RuN MiG-29K will have from the Indian variant. Indeed, they only plan to change the foreign system to Russian and use Zhuk-M instead Zhuk-ME (i.e. the basic versions instead export).

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  55. Hi Igorr, asking a question on a different topic, do you know the current status of the project to produce the IL-76 in russia ? the modernised one with higher payload ?
    TIA.

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  56. Hi Igor,Zhuk M only? I read several reports that says RuN Mig 29Ks will get Zhuk AE radars.

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  57. to Sancho:

    Hi!

    The reports about Zhuk-AE on MiG-29K are not reliable IMHO. They yet started maritime tests, while Zhuk-M is fully optimized for maritime function (wider searching angle, specific modes). Furthermore, 'Kuznetsov' carrier needs strike aircraft support in addition to purely air-to-air Su-33 group. Zhuk-AE - would be a costly overkill in this circumstances.

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  58. to Rahul M:

    Hi!

    The name of the program is Il-476/ It's planned with^
    1) Two pilots glass cabine
    2) 60 t payload
    3) PS-90A-76 engines with 15% more fuel efficiency
    4) 2011 - flying tests and 2012 - starting delivery/

    ReplyDelete
  59. radar detectability:
    http://img37.imagefra.me/img/img37/2/2/6/stl/f_15scax2t1fum_1803843.jpg
    http://forum.korrespondent.net/read.php?2,724491,1135099

    The L-band “game-changer” :
    http://ericpalmer.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/the-l-band-game-changer/

    ReplyDelete
  60. thanks Igor, I'm aware of the details but is the project still on ?? have there been any recent news on this front for instance ?

    one worrying factor is that there's no indication that the fuselage will be widened to accommodate tanks like the T-90/arjun, a capability the current IL-76 doesn't have. if this was done it would have blown the C-17 out of the sky as far as IAF was concerned.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Very great information.

    Igor, do you have any news on software they have been using for PAK-FA avionics, computer chips , and which programming languages, etc Russian will use for their works?

    ReplyDelete
  62. Hi Igor
    any chance to have article
    about Russian future carriers
    in the perspective of possible purchase
    of Mistral and announcement of building new
    air carrier till 2020 in RIA news.

    Great blog btw.!
    Thanks in advance!

    ReplyDelete
  63. to anon February 26, 2010 9:20 AM:

    A little bit of info about this you can find here:
    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.com/2010/01/pak-fa-first-flight.html

    ReplyDelete
  64. related link :
    http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?style=12&f=5&t=288&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1380

    ReplyDelete
  65. pak fa articles by blog aggregator :
    http://regator.com/p/234712263/russia_ramps_up_stealth_fighter_program/

    ReplyDelete
  66. http://foto.rambler.ru/public/hamsterw/1/su35f22/su35f22-webbig.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  67. comparison of several planes and variants with timeline :
    http://vivovoco.rsl.ru/VV/JOURNAL/VRAN/03_10/STELLS06.GIF
    http://vivovoco.rsl.ru/VV/JOURNAL/VRAN/03_10/STELLS.HTM

    ReplyDelete
  68. pak fa engine component :
    http://www.militaryparitet.com/forum/showimage.php?pid=35185&filename=tipa_1.JPG
    http://i002.radikal.ru/1003/50/ced2424d133d.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  69. I just got Steven J Zalogas book on the T-80 in which there is a photo of a T-74 with an external mounted gun from a project from the 1980s.
    In addition to a large main gun the vehicle seems to have what appears to be a 30mm cannon mounted above the main gun which I thought would be more useful against lighter targets and aircraft and I thought that considering the Ka-52 can carry a box of UAVs to scout ahead that the T-95 will probably have the capacity to do the same.
    Many are speculating that it might be revealed this year, but what I find amusing is that some seem to think it is a scratch built prototype and that it is failures that keep it from being revealed.
    Seems to me to be a long development period for a prototype and the delays seem to me to be more to do with the Russians not wanting to reveal it than anything else.
    Certainly the Russians would need a good netcentric control system to fully take advantage of the T-95 (and T-50) which isn't really there yet so it would probably be quite hard to justify fully scale production right now of either.

    ReplyDelete
  70. large infographic of pak fa :
    http://img.vz.ru/upimg/348/348690.jpg

    deflectable tailplanes :
    http://lh5.ggpht.com/_qe-z6hmCgxs/S5IcuIx-4AI/AAAAAAAAABo/m317EkttNFk/IMG_9525.JPG

    tyres of pak fa :
    http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=10284&mode=view

    scale model :
    http://www.hobbies-31.ucoz.ru/forum/17-198-1

    ReplyDelete
  71. apparegiMe@gMail.coMApril 26, 2010 at 7:10 PM

    3d diagrams of pak fa :
    http://www.rumodelism.com/forum/download.php/1,35752/сб13.jpg
    http://www.rumodelism.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=297272&t=297272#reply_297272

    ReplyDelete
  72. another good comparison with f-22 :
    http://s40.radikal.ru/i087/1003/1e/dce6989c461b.jpg

    missile bay comparison with f-22 :
    http://i024.radikal.ru/1003/5d/25f369eaeac2.jpg

    pak fa flying with deflectable tailplanes :
    http://s43.radikal.ru/i102/1003/44/cc84aad52e0b.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  73. pak fa article in japanese magazine :
    http://images.sonicalbum.com/bbs_album_29/photos/23_593924.jpg
    http://www.sonicmodel.com/topicdisplay.asp?BoardID=23&Page=2&TopicID=3222513

    ReplyDelete
  74. another good diagram of pak fa :
    http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5357/sukhoit501.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  75. hi-res image of pak fa nose :
    http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5054/100302203847tt50.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  76. cool photo of pak fa bottom :
    http://s40.radikal.ru/i090/1008/b2/30a3b798fcf6.jpg
    http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=967914&postcount=1119

    ReplyDelete
  77. video : coparison with f-22 :
    http://www.youtube.com/user/maxispeed0#p/u/1/cXKTwQB8Vbw

    ReplyDelete
  78. pak fa nose antenna detail :
    http://sukhoi.org/img/content/news/18_06_2010_04.jpg
    http://sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=3369

    good photo of pak fa from behind : 1000px × 666px :
    http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=11306&mode=view

    good photo of pak fa tails : 1280px × 599px :
    www.cardesign.ru/files/forum/part_10/101258/preview/fd4f3893270d_1280.jpg

    missiles of pak fa :
    http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/9810/krabiceoprava3definitiv.jpg
    http://s001.radikal.ru/i195/1008/9b/722a77c70dcc.jpg
    http://s57.radikal.ru/i156/1008/73/0126be1a6a3a.jpg
    http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?p=92929

    ReplyDelete
  79. pak fa inside cargo plane :
    http://funkyimg.com/u2/131/599/PAKFA_T-50-1_in_close_view.jpg

    realistic scale models of pak fa :
    http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=214284

    ReplyDelete
  80. large bombs inside :
    http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=11149&mode=view

    preparing to land :
    http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/model_pakfa_files/Gear-Down_small.gif

    over 40 new photos :
    http://pilot.strizhi.info/2010/06/22/8752

    ReplyDelete
  81. http://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2010-11/1290505125_1.jpg

    ReplyDelete
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